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[Xmca-l] Re: Отв: Re: In Defense of Communism: Legendary composer Mikis Theodorakis blasts anti-communists and anti-Stalin slanderers



Stalin was a pragmatist and, from the 20s, a conservative. Confusing Stalinism and Marxism will certainly handicap anyone who wants to understand Vygotsky or Ilyenkov.

Ivan


--
festina lente


> On 30 Aug 2017, at 02:58, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think today stalin, after 65 years of his death, is used to demonize
> socialism and communism.
> 
> We can and should discuss not only Stalin but also Robespierre.
> 
> It is useful.
> 
> Especially to discuss Robespierre to see how humanity is condemned to a
> deep degenerated bourgeois politics since nearly 250 years after
> Robespierre.
> 
> About crimes against humanity, oppression...
> 
> For this latter, I think nobody can compete not only with Truman, Bushs and
> Trump but also Clinton husband and wife and Obama. Nor Merkel. Nor
> Churchill, Blair, Thatcher and queen. And spanish king. And also socialist
> Hollande. Tsipras' crimes against Greek working people for managing the
> capitalist crisis on behalf of Greek and German capital is obvious. What to
> discuss Stalin when we have such a criminal like Tsipras? Are not almost
> all of these bourgeois politicians, like Felipe Gonzalez, Javier Solana
> mere criminals? Why we do not discuss their crimes? Felipe's crimes for
> instance. Killings by his government.
> 
> If we have to look for crimes against humanity, imperialism is a Bolt, a
> champion.
> 
> Then why again and again, we are reminded of Stalin? And why we are not
> reminded of Hitler?
> 
> Because Stalin is used to close the exit from capitalism towards socialist
> and communist society. This is a mere fact.
> 
> I am ready to discuss crimes of Stalin in depth. With whom?
> 
> Not with those people who emphasize Stalin's crimes more than Truman's.
> 
> I can discuss this with people who admits that capitalism and imperialism,
> in its crimes, can not be compared to socialism, even to Stalin.
> 
> There is an ideological struggle here. A fierce stuggle.
> 
> Is capitalism and imperialism able to carry humanity? No. But socialism was.
> 
> I can enlist many questions here.
> 
> This Stalin. Did his planes bomb civilian people in cities? No. British did.
> 
> Did Ibm provide support to Nazis for carting  system? Yes. Did Usa after
> 1945 use nazis to build cia and today's german intelligence services? Why
> Americans and Germans do not know these but stalin's name by heart?
> 
> This is a self-defence for imperialism.
> 
> So did imperialism really condemn  nazism? Or it unherited it?
> 
> And when I ask these questions I do no aim at relieving stalin from the
> complete responsibility.
> 
> But what imperialist media is doing, it is doing this because they are
> against crimes against humanity?
> 
> This is a wrong universe.
> 
> This is anti communism. It has nothing to do with a healthy evaluation of
> Stalin.
> 
> Can imperialist media do such a healthy evaluation? No.
> 
> Who will do it? Those who work to open the way to socialism. They are
> responsible to not repeat past mistakes.
> 
> Is there any body in the communist movement saying Stalin has done
> everything very well and without slightest mistake? No.
> 
> Why then is this discussion? Not because there is a risk of a new Stalin
> and a Greek one this time.
> 
> To close the exit to socialism. To obstruct Kke. This is obvious. Kke is
> gaining ground within the Greek working class and Ta Nea discusses stalin.
> 
> In a Europe where there are still imbecile queens and kings without
> republics, poor masses should believe that stalin was very very bad and
> there is no alternative to capitalism other than a new stalin.
> 
> Sorry, those who prefer may opt to believe that stalin is still the
> greatest danger against the salvation of human species and that we should
> admit imperialist world order, this barbarity, I do not opt for this.
> 
> Mikis is  completely right when he raises this objection and unmasks its
> true purpose.
> 
> Humans can be murdered not only by terror. Capitalism does this daily.
> Millions are killed, assassinated, murdered due to the sole fact that
> capitalist mechanisms are in application in this society. This is occurring
> without Stalin.
> 
> People can be killed also by their souls.
> 
> I have recently read that Russian people does not love Pushkin as in Soviet
> period.
> Unbelivable. Russian people does not read Pushkin and does not love him
> anymore. If Russian people does not read Pushkin, then what he or she reads
> is nonsense. If russian people does not love Pushkin, then he or she can
> not be in love.
> 
> Is there and may there be any greater crime to russian youth than taking
> from them pushkin and giving them mcdonalds?
> 
> This is counter revolution against humanity.
> 
> Down with Lenin and Stalin and long live Mcdonalds.
> 
> Fidel is not Stalin. They can not label him as they do for Stalin.
> 
> But he is labeled as dictator. Who went to his funeral? Nobody. Not a
> single social democrat from Europe.
> Tsipras who does not have any problem with fascist Israel state and
> capitalism went there. Because he is for socialism? No just to take fresh
> blood.
> 
> Why imperialist media does not blame Israel instead of Stalin?
> 
> We can and should discuss stalin, ussr etc but not as Ta Nea does.
> 
> We can not discuss it with and within and together with imperialist media.
> 
> Mikis is absolutely right. Because via Stalin they try to liquidate
> communist legacy of the past and try to close the way to an actual
> socialist revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30 Ağu 2017 01:51 tarihinde "Alexandre Sourmava" <avramus@gmail.com> yazdı:
> 
>> Hi, Tom
>> As borne in the USSR person who have felt Soviet regime on his own back I
>> can only agree with your post.
>> The most dangerous was to be a marxist in this country.
>> Sasha
>> 
>>    среда, 30 августа 2017 0:12 Tom Richardson <
>> tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> писал(а):
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello Ulvi
>> 
>> It will be a help towards understanding your attitude towards the article's
>> defence of 'Stalinism', if you will provide your own reason(s) for posting
>> it.
>> 
>> 
>> I really wish to acknowledge the lethal horror and inhumanity of the
>> occupation, post-war /civil war period in Greece (with UK's murderous
>> intervention),  whose agonies continued, followed by the IMF/ECB torture of
>> the present.
>> Nevertheless, as a committed communist whose analysis of the theory and
>> practice of Soviet Russia after 1925-6 is agonised but complete rejection,
>> I regret very much to say that I find the actual article a nationalist
>> diatribe defending an indefensible personality and system.
>> 
>> Tom Richardson
>> Middlesbrough UK
>> [a follower of xmca threads and occasional commentator]
>> 
>>> On 28 August 2017 at 22:40, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://communismgr.blogspot.com.tr/2017/08/legendary-
>>> composer-mikis-theodorakis.html?m=1
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>