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[Xmca-l] Re: Fw: Re: Vygotsky,Marx, & summer reading



Haydi, you know that is far too many questions at once for me. But I will try some quick-fire answers and see how far I can get.

'Moment' has a special meaning in Hegel, not unrelated to its mathematical meaning: each moment is the whole, but at a different level of generality. 'Part' and 'component' are not really scienific words, but I would say that 'components' are implicitly mutually exclusive parts that add up to the whole, whereas 'part' has not such connotation, but could be overlapping, but in "the sum of the parts etc ..." parts means components.

Don't really know what you mean by "realm".

Are we talking Hegelian categories here? "Determinate Being" (Dasein) is part of Being, whereas Actuality is part of Reflection.

"Who affirms?" Don't see how "who comes in here.

"Whole" is a relative term, so yes, we can hierachies of wholes.

"How do we determine thought from action?" We have to figure out what is mediating between actions, so as to make sense of actions.

Lenin was fully aware of the different senses in which Hegel and Marx used the term "Being" and Lenin generally followed Marx in his usage.

I think "Being is Nothing" is Hegel's idea, though he is recapitulating early Greek thought. SPinoza did not see it that way.

I follow Lenin for a definition of "Matter" - "a philosophical category denoting everything that exists outside of consciousness."

But yes, it is a Substance.


... time for me to go to bed.

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
https://andyblunden.academia.edu/research
On 23/08/2017 12:14 AM, ‪Haydi Zulfei‬ ‪ wrote:
Andy,
First I confess my limits in discussion.
David , Excuse me for intrusion. I really have questions to ask Andy to be understood.
Andy--to your saying "but precisely because it is a whole despite being not made up of anything other than the parts."


What is the difference between 'moment' and 'part' 'component'. And what is the realm of each?
You have not discriminated between wholes generally ; I'd like to ask if 'finites' are parts of the 'infinite' .
Does 'determinate being' enter the realm of 'actuality' ? If yes , who affirms who rejects? In what way? If yes , is the 'actuality' a whole? Do we have hierarchies of actual wholes ? In what way do they interact? How do we determine thought from action , actuality from corpus?
Which of the two does Lenin affirm , determinate being as empty or Being as empty? Nothing is actual? Is Spinoza for Being as empty or Hegel?
Please don't think I'm muddying anything , No! I was dragged to this point. I do want to get cleared.
Is this a good definition for matter ? General Monistic substance which gives birth to the whole Universe. Does such Universe accept partioning? If yes , is Hegel for it or against it? What about Marx? 'Notion' comes everywhere in Hegel . Is it a neglect of translation for 'concept' or what Hegel really means is just Notion? Is Notion 'matter' for Hegel?
I sincerely hope I will not receive the type of response one of our dearest friends received .
Still student
Haydi


----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
  To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
  Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2017, 8:53:44
  Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Vygotsky,Marx, & summer reading
I think it's more a case that the Kellogg Test#c fails the
Activity Theory test, just as the Kellogg Test#a fails
Marx's Capital.

The whole is greater than the part (if it is a genuine
whole) not because there are some additional parts you
forgot to add up but precisely because it is a whole despite
being not made up of anything other than the parts.

I am reminded of A N Leontyev's "accusation" that taking
/perezhivniya /a units of personality set up a logical
circle: "... / perezhivanie/, as the specific form through
which the whole personality manifests itself, now occupies
the place that formerly belonged to the whole personality of
the child,” that is, determining the child’s
/ perezhivanie/“... a logical vicious circle." Leontyev
seems to think that teh only genuine form of science is
reductionism.

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making

On 22/08/2017 11:48 AM, David Kellogg wrote:
What other than commodities are the units of capital
composed of? That's easy. Commodities are human relations
in a congealed form. Ergo, units of capital are made of
human relations in an uncongealed form. You are not a
fetishist, are you?

My point about actions and activities was precisely that
activities are NOT made up of anything more than actions;
that's why activity fails the third test.

I think that Engestrom tries to show some of the abstract
rules, the community relations and the division of labor
that subtends all this activity, but the distinctions
between (e.g.) rules and division of labor, or division of
labor and community, are not too clear. As you say,
blurring is a problem, if our goal is analysis, and an
analysis that shows the heterogeneity (the
distinctiveness) of parts.

dk

David Kellogg
Macquarie University

Recent Article: Vygotsky, Halliday, and Hasan: Towards
Conceptual Complementarity

Free E-print Downloadable at:

http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/W7EDsmNSEwnpIKFRG8Up/full

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Andy Blunden
<ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

     Wow! That's a radical claim, David! What other things
     (or events) are activities composed of??

     And while you're at it, what other than commodities
     are units of capital composed of?

     Andy

     ------------------------------------------------------------
     Andy Blunden
     http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>

     On 22/08/2017 6:21 AM, David Kellogg wrote:

         Helena:

         Yes, the idea that activity is made up of actions,
         and that if we take away
         actions from activity nothing remains (Leontiev).
         To me, this is an
         admission that the whole is merely a sum of parts.
         Compare Vygotsky's
         thought experiment of structuring a game in such a
         way that we take away
         all the roles and we see that abstract rules
         remain (Chapter Seven in* "Mind
         in Society")*.