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[Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY



Hi Andy, I don't follow you. I don't denounce but raise a question; and I
point to the literature where the link between individual and collective
emotion is done. And I do not see where there is a declaration, unless you
mean the index to the literature. Michael


Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>

New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
<https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> Declarations are cheap, Michael. Denunciations of dichotomy are a
> dime-a-dozen. The point is: how is it done?
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> On 11/06/2017 2:15 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
>
>> Does Vygotsky not move beyond the dichotomy sociology | psychology when
>> he acknowledges ("Concrete Human Psychology") that "any higher
>> psychological function was a social relation" and "personality: the
>> ensemble of societal relations"?
>>
>> On emotions you might find interesting the work of Randall Collins,
>> "Interaction ritual chains", which acknowledges the constitutive relation
>> between individual and collective emotions
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>> Applied Cognitive Science
>> MacLaurin Building A567
>> University of Victoria
>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>>
>> New book: */The Mathematics of Mathematics <https://www.sensepublishers.c
>> om/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-sci
>> ence-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>/*
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     In advancing this  thread exploring     sociology/psychology and
>> their connections, Andy
>>     explores how these connections can be thought about
>>     within a single science or theory. This opens up the
>>     question of multiple approaches to how we relate
>>     sociology and psychology within differing sciences
>>     using uniting  frames.
>>
>>     Greg introduces the book (Affective Circuits) which is
>>     attempting to move beyond the concept of the nation
>>     state and the sending/receiving polarity of
>>     ‘methodological nationalism’
>>     The difficulty becomes this focusing on multitudes of
>>     understanding (multiple cultural, economic and
>>     political contexts – simultaneously unfolding).
>>     Then holding this multitude while considering kinship
>>     and intimate relations.
>>     The intent of this book to open up new ways of
>>     thinking about migration in which the search for
>>     marriage or ties to kin can sometimes re-place the
>>     search for work.
>>     The focus of the book exploring the way EVOKING
>>     powerful emotions regulate and disrupt ‘affective
>>     circuits’.
>>
>>     Definition of Affective Circuits:
>>     The social formations that emerge from the sending,
>>     withholding and receiving of goods, ideas, bodies, and
>>     emotions.
>>     These social formations being multitudes that occur
>>     simultaneously.
>>
>>     Alfredo, emotions and infrastructure operating across
>>     multiple LATERAL sites or contexts seems to be a
>>     complex question.
>>
>>     Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>>     From: Andy Blunden
>>     Sent: June 9, 2017 7:50 PM
>>     To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY
>>
>>     Er. "not do any research on the dynamics of the
>>     institutions
>>     of formal education (for example) by by"
>>     should be "do research on the dynamics of the institutions
>>     of formal education (for example) by"
>>
>>     Sorry,
>>     Andy
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Andy Blunden
>>     http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>>     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>
>>     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
>> decision-making>
>>
>>     On 10/06/2017 12:03 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>     > Alfredo, in every science there are specialisms
>>     which are
>>     > necessarily pursued in relatively independent research
>>     > communities, despite being part of the same science.
>>     What
>>     > makes all these specialisms parts of the one science is
>>     > the use of concepts which are shared across the whole
>>     > science and are necessarily connected in the
>>     constitution
>>     > of the science. CHAT is such a science; its basic
>>     concepts
>>     > such as artefact-mediated actions and activities are
>>     basic
>>     > to both psychology and social theory as we approach it.
>>     > Therefore the educational psychologist may *not* do *any
>>     > *research on the dynamics of the institutions of formal
>>     > education (for example) by *by *dint of the fact
>>     > "activity" is a shared concept, discoveries from one
>>     > research field can enter the research in the other, and
>>     > from time to time problems in educational psychology
>>     will
>>     > find their solution in the social theory of formal
>>     > educational institutions, and vice versa.
>>     >
>>     > Andy
>>     >
>>     >
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     > Andy Blunden
>>     > http://home.mira.net/~andy
>>     <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>>     >
>>     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>
>>     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
>> decision-making>
>>     >
>>     > On 10/06/2017 5:11 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>     >> I had to make a pause in my contributing to the
>>     >> discussion, as we (my family) are these days relocating
>>     >> from Victoria to Europe (in Spain at the moment). But I
>>     >> have kept  wondering (and wandering) around the topic
>>     >> that came up in Yasuko Kawatoko's article concerning
>>     >> emotion and infrastructure, and then about ANT and
>>     CHAT.
>>     >> And so I was thinking that the question relates to that
>>     >> of the connection between sociology and psychology,
>>     does
>>     >> not it? For is there the possibility of a psychology
>>     >> without a sociology in either ANT or CHAT?
>>     >>
>>     >> To travel from Victoria to Alicante, we (2 adults and a
>>     >> 7-year and a 2-year) had to take a drive (a friend
>>     drove
>>     >> us) from (no longer) home to the airport, then, after a
>>     >> number of procedures at the airport, got into a
>>     plain to
>>     >> fly Victoria - Calgary; then Calgary - Amsterdam; then
>>     >> Amsterdam - Madrid, then a taxi that would drive us
>>     to a
>>     >> high-speed train to Alicante. Then a (family) drive
>>     from
>>     >> Alicante to a small town in the province of Valencia.
>>     >> That's an infrastructure. And that's a lot of affect
>>     >> generated. I could not help but to think on the
>>     relation
>>     >> between infrastructure and emotion all the way...
>>     >>
>>     >> Alfredo
>>     >> ________________________________________
>>     >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
>>     Larry
>>     >> Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
>>
>>     >> Sent: 02 June 2017 07:05
>>     >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     >>
>>     >> Michael, to pick up this thread:
>>     >> “ The important part of the quotation is this: "*the
>>     >> methods* in
>>     >> and through which members concertedly produce and
>>     >> assemble," and these
>>     >> include making the very production and assembly
>>     available
>>     >> to each other.
>>     >>
>>     >> In particular the phrase:
>>     >>
>>     >> “in and through which” the methods are assembled
>>     [arranged].
>>     >>
>>     >> Here is the way that Kenneth Liberman makes a similar
>>     >> observation within a note # 1
>>     >>
>>     >>   1 The phrase ‘‘in and as of’’ intends to retain the
>>     >> actual state of affairs of a social practice.
>>     Instead of
>>     >> conceiving of a metaphysical object, ‘‘science,’’ which
>>     >> ‘‘has’’ certain practices, a science consists of its
>>     >> practices. It does not exist apart from them; in fact,
>>     >> the task of any inquiry into the lebenswelt origins of
>>     >> sciences takes its departure from this recognition. A
>>     >> science is nothing more than, and nothing less
>>     than, the
>>     >> activities of its practitioners. The phrase promises to
>>     >> retain the important insight, which is consistent with
>>     >> Husserl’s own phenomenological discoveries, that a
>>     >> science does not merely exist in its practices, it
>>     exists
>>     >> as its practices. The perspective is vital to an
>>     >> anti-essentialist inquiry, and the phrase is employed
>>     >> frequently in ethnomethodology (cf. Garfinkel, 2002, p.
>>     >> 92, 99, 138, 207, 211, 246, 247; Garfinkel and Wieder,
>>     >> 1992, p. 175).
>>     >>
>>     >> So the two  phrases
>>     >> “in and through which” & “in and as of” are
>>     indicating a
>>     >> way of making visible a work  or a method or a
>>     discipline
>>     >> AS practices.
>>     >>
>>     >> For further elaboration here reproduced  a  full
>>     page of
>>     >> the article written by Kenneth Liberman where note
>>     #1 is
>>     >> generated: This page  may be taking us off topic or it
>>     >> may be relevant?? This page  is bringing in another
>>     >> approach exploring the origins of ethno “methods”.
>>     >>
>>     >> “ While Husserl provided the direction for our
>>     >> ethnomethodological investigations, the lived work of
>>     >> various sciences––in their coherent, work-site specific
>>     >> organizational Things-in-distinctive-details, case by
>>     >> case for the particular sciences––are obscured by
>>     >> Husserl’s use of formal generalities in both The
>>     >> Gottingen Lectures and The Crisis. Regrettably, and
>>     as a
>>     >> certainty, both of Husserl’s treatises lose the
>>     >> phenomenon they were written carefully to describe.
>>     That
>>     >> is, they lose the phenomenon of the actual
>>     work-sites of
>>     >> any science. And there they also lose the instructed
>>     >> actions of the scientists, i.e. their actual
>>     >> world-generating collaborations. They lose the
>>     phenomenon
>>     >> by losing just-how their instructed actions are
>>     >> administered to reveal for the scientists their
>>     work, as
>>     >> well as the objects they are studying. In Husserl’s
>>     >> program, the lebenswelt origins, being only formally
>>     >> exhibited by the lectures, do not actually describe any
>>     >> lebenswelt practices.
>>     >>   They do not exhibit lebenswelt practices with
>>     >> lived-in-the-course instructed actions. They merely
>>     >> allude to lebenswelt practices. The real achievement of
>>     >> Husserl’s program, then, is that the actual lived
>>     work of
>>     >> sciences are alluded to as lived practices. And that is
>>     >> no small achievement. The Gottingen Lectures and The
>>     >> Crisis assert the promises of Husserl’s monumental
>>     >> program. Their incongruous anomaly is that their
>>     promise
>>     >> was neither noticed nor recognized by bench
>>     practitioners
>>     >> of any science. The program of The Crisis was never
>>     taken
>>     >> up by scientists, nor was it welcomed as filling a
>>     ‘‘gap’’
>>     >> in the coherence of a particular science, in and as of
>>     >> its discovered topics and practices.1 Nevertheless,
>>     >> despite the fact that scientists rarely welcomed
>>     >> Husserl’s inquiries, in epistemological philosophy the
>>     >> program remains venerated as Husserl’s achievement. Yet
>>     >> even there Husserl’s program has not been taken up in a
>>     >> radical way, as the familiar haecceities2 o
>>     >>   f an actual science. It has only been used to
>>     >> illustrate cases for ep
>>     >> istemological arguments about the sciences. Hence, the
>>     >> task of taking up Husserl’s program seriously remains.
>>     >> This is not to say that no ground has been gained. Very
>>     >> little in The Gottingen Lectures redescribes the lived
>>     >> work of any actual science. On the contrary, the
>>     lectures
>>     >> forcefully point to the absence of haecceities in
>>     any and
>>     >> every particular science. These absent details can
>>     >> involve the shop talk, local gestural organization, the
>>     >> local endogenous practices of social order
>>     production and
>>     >> accountability, and their coherent substantive
>>     material,
>>     >> which might include board notes, personal notebooks,
>>     >> diaries, diagrams, scribblings, books, ....”
>>     >>
>>     >> The theme here is the shift from a theory  being
>>     >> “formally exhibited” within  disciplinary methods to
>>     >> re-mark what was previously  formally exhibited to
>>     become
>>     >> a method of describing lebenswelt practices. [ethno
>>     >> practices].
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>     >>
>>     >> From: Wolff-Michael Roth
>>     >> Sent: June 1, 2017 5:48 PM
>>     >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     >>
>>     >> Thanks Martin,
>>     >>
>>     >> I do not view what I am saying--though it is
>>     differently
>>     >> said---from what
>>     >> you quote. The important part of the quotation is this:
>>     >> "*the methods* in
>>     >> and through which members concertedly produce and
>>     >> assemble," and these
>>     >> include making the very production and assembly
>>     available
>>     >> to each other. In
>>     >> all of this, some things are unquestioned, and
>>     Garfinkel
>>     >> wrote considerably
>>     >> on the invisible background assumption . . .
>>     >>
>>     >> Michael
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>>     >>
>>     >> Applied Cognitive Science
>>     >> MacLaurin Building A567
>>     >> University of Victoria
>>     >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>>     >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
>>     >> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
>>     <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
>>     >>
>>     >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>>     >>
>>     <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-dir
>> ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics
>> -of-mathematics/
>>     <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-dir
>> ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics
>> -of-mathematics/>>*
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Martin John Packer
>>     >> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>>     <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>
>>
>>     >> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>> Hi Wolff-Michael,
>>     >>>
>>     >>> I agree with most of what you’ve written, but not the
>>     >>> suggestion that EM
>>     >>> starts from the assumption that people (simply) make
>>     >>> visible order that has
>>     >>> its origins somewhere else. I’ll quote from an
>>     >>> encyclopedia article by Doug
>>     >>> Maynard and Teddy Kardash:
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Ethnomethodology is an area in sociology
>>     originating in
>>     >>> the work of Harold
>>     >>> Garfinkel. It represents an effort to study the
>>     methods
>>     >>> in and through
>>     >>> which members concertedly produce and assemble the
>>     >>> features of everyday
>>     >>> life in any actual, concrete, and not hypothetical or
>>     >>> theoretically
>>     >>> depicted setting…. Members of society achieve this
>>     >>> intelligible
>>     >>> organization through actual, coordinated, concerted,
>>     >>> procedural behaviors
>>     >>> or methods and practices.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>   Martin
>>     >>>
>>     >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
>>     >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com><mailto:wolffmichael.
>> roth@gmail.com
>>
>>     <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com>>>
>>     >>> wrote:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Martin,
>>     >>> I would have thought that ethno*methodology* is the
>>     >>> study of the methods,
>>     >>> the work, people use to make social orders visible. In
>>     >>> this, it is very
>>     >>> different from all other research, qualitative and
>>     >>> quantitative. Garfinkel
>>     >>> describes it as *incommensurably different *from,
>>     among
>>     >>> others,
>>     >>> interpretive studies of social life. He
>>     distinguishes EM
>>     >>> from formal
>>     >>> analytic studies, all those that have to specify
>>     methods
>>     >>> because these
>>     >>> methods are different from the methods people use in
>>     >>> everyday life. EM does
>>     >>> not dispute the results of other research; its
>>     interests
>>     >>> are completely
>>     >>> elsewhere.
>>     >>> Practically, EM is interested in change if it is what
>>     >>> people do; it is not
>>     >>> interested in the change but how people do make change
>>     >>> and the required
>>     >>> work visible to each other.
>>     >>> Michael
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     >>>
>>     >>> --------------------
>>     >>> Applied Cognitive Science
>>     >>> MacLaurin Building A567
>>     >>> University of Victoria
>>     >>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>>     >>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth
>>     <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
>>     >>> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
>>     <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>>     >>>
>>     <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-
>>     <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new->
>>     >>> directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-
>>     >>> mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>>     >>>
>>     >>> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>     >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>     >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>     <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
>>     >>> wrote:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Larry, I also was thinking that visibility, in other
>>     >>> EM/CA studies also as
>>     >>> instructability, speaks to change. A
>>     >>> ________________________________________
>>     >>> From:
>>     >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>>     >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>     >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>>     >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>     >>> on behalf of Larry Purss
>>     >>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com><mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>
>>     <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>>     >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 01:44
>>     >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Martin,
>>     >>> This sentence,
>>     >>> “Creating and sustaining order always requires change”
>>     >>> And therefore makes visible change as the norm
>>     >>> Seems to be pregnant with an evocative enacting of
>>     >>> possibility for novel
>>     >>> kinds of social fabric[continuing with the weaving
>>     theme]
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>     >>>
>>     >>> From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>     >>> Sent: June 1, 2017 4:18 PM
>>     >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Yes, I agree with what you say. I guess I used the
>>     word
>>     >>> change where I
>>     >>> meant development. So I am going to change my
>>     question:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> What do and could do researchers concerned with
>>     >>> development (social,
>>     >>> personal) with EM.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> You recently shared with us a beautiful book on the
>>     >>> topic of development.
>>     >>> How does EM feature in it?
>>     >>> Alfredo
>>     >>> ________________________________________
>>     >>> From:
>>     >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>>     >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>     >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>>     >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>     >>> on behalf of Martin John Packer
>>     >>> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>>     <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co><mailto:
>>     >>> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>>     <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>>
>>     >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 00:40
>>     >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Hi Alfredo,
>>     >>>
>>     >>> I’ve always thought that EM deals very well with
>>     change,
>>     >>> because it does
>>     >>> not treat stasis as the norm. EM is the study of the
>>     >>> methods that people
>>     >>> (actants) employ to create and sustain order, various
>>     >>> kinds of order.
>>     >>> Creating and sustaining order always requires change.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> Martin
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>     >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>     >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>     <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>     >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>     <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>> wrote:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> I personally find ethnomethodology EM fascinating
>>     and a
>>     >>> powerful approach
>>     >>> to stick the realities of social life; but I always
>>     >>> wondered what does EM
>>     >>> do with questions of change.
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>