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[Xmca-l] Re: RES: Re: Child Development: Understanding a Cultural Perpsective


Andy Blunden
On 20/05/2017 1:45 AM, Martin John Packer wrote:
Hi David,

Here’s how I handled the matter of the age periods: the stages and crises; tell me what you think.

Infancy - A Practical Understanding of the World
Infancy - Towards Biological Differentiation
Toddlerhood - A World of Irresistible Invitations
Toddlerhood - Towards Psychological Differentiation
Early Childhood  - How Things Appear, And How They Are
Early Childhood  - Towards Inner and Outer
Middle Childhood - Understanding Institutional Reality
Middle Childhood - Towards the Actual and the Possible
The Teenage Years - Adolescent, or Adult?
The Teenage Years - Towards Adulthood

The “Towards” in these chapter titles reflects the fact that I needed to treat each stage in two chapters, and there was usually less to say about each crisis than about each stage, so I couldn’t dedicate a whole chapter to each crisis. Here’s how I described the notions of ‘stage’ and ‘transition’:

"Stages are qualitatively distinct from one another, not only in the form of intelligence that the child employs (as Piaget noted), but also in the child’s way of being in the world. Each stage involves a specific way of relating to the world and relating to self, and as a result of this a new way of experiencing and understanding.

"Transitions are those times when new properties rapidly emerge. A transition is a point of inflection, a crisis. In a transition there is a dramatic change in the child’s way of being in the world, so that she discovers new possibilities in that world and gains a new sense of herself: of her abilities, her capacities. During the stage that follows, the child progressively masters this new way of living in the world. These transitions are truly changes not only in the child but in the whole child-caregiver-niche system of which she is a component.”

And the diagram below (if it comes through) illustrates the sequence (I think the third should read Appearance & Reality).



On May 18, 2017, at 7:27 PM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com<mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>> wrote:

Martin, I think if I'd written something like that I'd be pretty shameless
too. (A propos--or by the bye--do you have a publisher for the Shpet
schtick you are up to...?)

Here's something for the revised edition. The way Vygotsky explains "Great
We" in the Pedological Lectures is a little different and a lot wittier. He
says it is a "Grandwe" in the sense of your Grandpa--that is, the "we" was
there before you were even a gleam in your Daddy's eye. (Vygotsky likes to
address the students with "You and we").

I have been thinking how to "popularize" the age periods without
vulgarizing them (you know, what Bruner says about being able to teach
anything to anybody in some honest way).

You and we (our little Grandwe) know perfectly well that Vygotsky measured
that zone of proximal development in years (it's a "next" zone of
development, so it doesn't make any sense to talk about it unless:

a) you have the age periods and

b) you have some set of problems--not the Binet problems!--that will
correlate in some non-arbitrary way to the next age period.

That means that the "next zone of development" for Vygotsky studies is not
to try to turn him into a failed Gestaltist (pace Yasnitsky and van der
Veer) but rather to try to figure out some way to get people to take the
age periods seriously no matter how busy and how impatient with Vygotsky's
discursive and apparently indecisive formulations they are.

What do you think of this?

Birth--Social Situation of Development: Instinct confronted by
intersubjectivity. Central Neoformation: "Pre-we"
Infancy--SSD: Physiologically independent but biologically dependent:
CNF: "Grandwe"
One--SSD: Proto-speech confronted by proper speech. CNF: "Pre-speech"
Early Childhood--SSD: Biologically independent but interpersonally
(interactionally) dependent. CNF: "Grandspeech"
Three--SSD: Affect confronted by the 'antipode' of will.  CNF: "Pre-will"
Preschool--SSD: Interpersonally independent but psychologically dependent
('reactive' learning). CNF: "Grandwill"
Seven--SSD: Inner personality confronted by outer persona. CNF: "Pre-me"
School Age: Psychologically independent but intellectually
(academically) dependent. CNF: "Grandme"
Thirteen: Original thinking confronted by imitation. CNF: "Pre-concepts"
Adolescence: Intellectually independent but socioeconomically dependent.
CNF: "Grandconcepts" (nontheoretical concepts, tinged with concrete
Seventeen SSD: In the USSR, school leaving. CNF: "Pre-Life"

You could write the Crises on your palm and the Stable Periods along each
finger. (Hard to read it, though....)

David Kellogg
Macquarie University

"The Great Globe and All Who It Inherit:
Narrative and Dialogue in Story-telling with
Vygotsky, Halliday, and Shakespeare"

Free Chapters Downloadable at:


Recent Article: Thinking of feeling: Hasan, Vygotsky, and Some Ruminations
on the Development of Narrative in Korean Children

Free E-print Downloadable at:


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Maria Judith Sucupira Costa Lins <
mariasucupiralins@terra.com.br> wrote:

Thank you for the chapter. Maria

-----Mensagem original-----
De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
Em nome de Martin John Packer
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 17 de maio de 2017 20:05
Para: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Assunto: [Xmca-l] Re: Child Development: Understanding a Cultural

Thanks Alfredo. It was fun to write, and it would not have been possible
except for what I have learned over the years from some very smart people,
number of whom hang out on this very discussion group.


On May 17, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
<a.j.gil@iped.uio.no<mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>> wrote:

Thanks for shamelessly sharing your work, Martin. The chapter looks great.
like the way it draws connections throughout diverse theories, emphasising
common ground across dual systems theory, dynamic field theory, and

behalf of Martin John Packer
Sent: 18 May 2017 00:10
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l]  Child Development: Understanding a Cultural Perpsective

A few months ago I shamelessly promoted my new textbook, Child Development:
Understanding a Cultural Perspective, published by Sage at only $46 for the
paperback edition, $33 or less for the various electronic editions.

There is now a sample chapter available online: Chapter 5, one of the two
chapters on infancy: