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[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel's notion of The Notion

To me the question is not that they exist---we use concepts, like
*(in painting, in music, in poetry...), but HOW do they exist. This is
where the major theoretical divides will show itself. And concerning the
mind, I would search in a direction that Anglo-Saxons really have a hard
time with, it is SENSE (Sinn, smysl), a direction Vygotsky w  Michael

Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>

New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> Concepts are first of all things which exist; because they exist, the mind
> is capable of grasping them, in fact, they are exactly the way the mind
> grasps the world (etymologically concept = to grasp). The way they exist is
> in human activity and the artifacts we use in that activity. Since you have
> made a start on this Greg, I have to say that I think you need this and
> also the section to follow called "The Subjective Notion" to get a decent
> picture.
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> On 12/05/2017 1:40 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>> ​Okay Andy, I've started into the Hegel text that you suggested (I don't
>> think you truly appreciate how slow of a reader I am! BTW, the text Andy
>> shared can be found here: https://www.marxists.org/refer
>> ence/archive/hegel/works/hl/hlnotion.htm), and I came across this notion
>> of The Notion by Hegel in Section 1279:
>> "Now although it is true that the Notion is to be regarded, not merely as
>> a subjective presupposition but as the /absolute foundation/, yet it can be
>> so only in so far as it has /made/ itself the foundation. Abstract
>> immediacy is no doubt a /first/; yet in so far as it is abstract it is, on
>> the contrary mediated, and therefore if it is to be grasped in its truth
>> its foundation must first be sought. Hence this foundation, though indeed
>> an immediate, must have made itself immediate through the sublation of
>> mediation."​
>> This seems core to the kind of realism that Hegel is building up (a
>> realism of concepts) and, I think, remains a revolutionary conception
>> today. The idea here seems to be that the Notion is not a "subjective
>> presupposition" but is rather much more real than that. But, I guess I'm
>> wondering HOW can this be?
>> There are multiple objections, but perhaps the biggest objection comes
>> from 20th century social science's preoccupation with social construction.
>> In this tradition, concepts are things held in the head, subjective and
>> maybe also intersubjective, but always mediated (and some might say
>> "derivative"). Hegel seems to be offering a much different take - one in
>> which concepts are much more primary. Am I right here?
>> And, what is this business about the "sublation of mediation"? (and where
>> does this last bit jibe with CHAT? Many people in CHAT speak of mediation
>> but I don't recall anyone speaking of the "sublation of mediation").
>> Any help with this text would be appreciated.
>> (and this is closely related to "the stuff of words" but I still felt
>> that this needed a new thread.).
>> -greg
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson