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[Xmca-l] Re: Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky



My hunch would be that he was heading toward a Marxian perspective. In a
2006 article in SEMIOTICA (appended), I showed how when you replace
"commodity" in *Das Kapital *by "sign" and all examples of commodities by
examples of signs, you get texts that could have been written by
philosophers of difference.
At the time, I didn't understand much of Vygotsky, the earlier or the
later---I guess, I still don't if you take as a measure everything we, as a
culture, know about his writing and thinking---and I was still thinking
more in the old way. But I already did suggest that we can think
differently about language, moving away from reference and "meaning."
Michael

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>

New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
<https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Larry,
> The late Vygotsky quote you offered sounds very much like Peirce (P was
> critical of "correspondence" theories of semiosis (V's NOT a relation
> between sound and thing), and the intrepretant is about the holding of a
> particular sign relation in the same way as another (V's unity)). Perhaps
> Vygotsky's late turn was from a Saussurean understanding of the sign to a
> Peircean one?
> -greg
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:36 AM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Alfredo,
> > I offer a quote from the ‘later’ Vygotsky that you cite in your article
> > that may prime the pump:
> >
> > Language is NOT the relation between a sound and a denoted thing.  It is
> > the relation between the speaker and the listener, the relation between
> > people directed toward an object.  IT IS THE INTERPSYCHIC REACTION THAT
> > ESTABLISHES THE UNITY OF TWO ORAGANISMS IN THE SAME ORIENTATION, Toward
> an
> > object
> >
> > The focus hear on ‘establishing the UNITY’ of teacher and student IN
> their
> > orientation.
> > The IN includes (within)
> >
> > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
> >
> > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > Sent: April 9, 2017 5:21 AM
> > To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky
> >
> > Alfredo,
> > I have been slowly reading (and digesting) your and Wolff-Michael’s
> > article (Theorizing – with/out mediators) that joins the current ‘takes’
> on
> > the later Vygotsky.
> >
> > My impression (and appreciation) of this emerging tradition is
> significant
> > as  an enlarging of the scope and ‘re-working’ of the Vygotsky who was
> > known in the process of moving into the West European  and North Atlantic
> > form of theorizing.
> >
> > I am reading your article in relation to the notion of ‘playworlds’ and
> > ‘spielraum’ (translated playrooms).
> >
> > A key re-working of (mediation) has to do with re/thinking triangle
> > diagrams as static (with mediation at the apex).
> > This generates a PREsumption of two variables at the base of the triangle
> > assumed as (elements, essences, things) that inter/act through an
> > ‘intermediary’ third (element, essence, thing).
> > Your article indicates this is the classical or canonical version of
> > (mediation) as the third thing/element through which the other two
> > things/elements become changed or develop.
> >
> > Your re-working of (mediation) adds the temporal, duration, and (unit of
> > analysis) and implies it is not the elements or parts that each
> > individually change or develop (classic intermediary model of elements
> > transformed by going through a third element IN a triangle with an apex
> > mediator)
> > But rather
> > There are only relation of (within UNITS).
> > When a tool, technique, sign, word, artifact) develops then the ENTIRE
> > UNIT (not elements) develops.
> >
> > Alfredo, I personally believe your approach (currently re-working
> > classical and Western canonical versions) deserves to have its own
> (place)
> > as a subsection on the XMCA site. To become more clear on this ‘later’
> > Vygotsky.
> > Then a conversation may generate that puts in question this re-working
> > BUT
> > In a spirit of ‘play’ in rooms.
> > A movement back and forth, oscillating, spiralling, developing, and never
> > reaching a determinate conclusion, once and forever.
> >
> > Putting in play triangles with mediators at the apex as static diagrams.
> > More open, fluid, theorizing with ANDA WITHOUT ‘mediators’ as we play
> with
> > these notions.
> >
> > I recommend others read the article ‘Theorizing with/out mediators’.
> > Reading the (/) to mean interval where we tarry awhile in a spirit of
> > re-working theorizing with/out mediators.
> >
> > I believe we need to create a subsection on XMCA to let these notions
> > percolate and permeate the more classical boundary markers.
> >
> > My way of saying your article is a pro-found re-working of the notions of
> > (within) and (without) and (mediation) at the core of this re-working
> > PRE-assumptions.
> >
> > My morning muse
> >
> > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
> >
> > From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
> > Sent: April 8, 2017 10:20 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky
> >
> > Hi Esteban,
> >
> > yes, things have been a little quiet lately, but there have been few
> > threads going on, perhaps most importantly the one discussing Jang's
> (this
> > issue's) paper on multi-ethnic issues on Second Language.
> >
> > Other threads have seemed to resonate on recent articles/works attempting
> > to re-work (or work further) some of Vygotsky's key concepts, in
> particular
> > ZPD and Mediation (with a couple of articles having been circulated).
> >
> > Connecting to the latter, it seems that several of those efforts are
> > making emphasis on Vygotsky's later period, suggesting that much of the
> > prior and current uptakes have focused almost exclusively on the
> > instrumental aspects that were more salient in his middle period, and not
> > so much on the lines of inquiry that the psychologist was opening never
> had
> > the chance to pursue.
> >
> > I attach yet another such work, this time by del Río and Álvarez. Much is
> > being written about how and to what extent Vygotsky was revising his own
> > prior work. This one tells as more about that, and does so both in
> English
> > and in Spanish.
> >
> > I wonder how do xmca'ers (who likely are busy reading world news as
> things
> > are getting more and more perplexing) feel and think about this
> > tendency/prospect in cultural-historical theory literature.
> >
> > Alfredo
> > ________________________________________
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > on behalf of Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 09 April 2017 03:11
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie,    Apophasis
> > ... and TRUMP'S speech!
> >
> > Hi, Esteban -
> >
> > Things have been a little quiet recently. I suspect my co-xmca-ers in the
> > US are either mid-semester or digging in on big projects that will have
> > some significance, hopefully, given what we’re dealing with here.
> >
> > You may or may not be aware that our new Secretary of Education is the
> > sister of Erik Prince, http://www.ibtimes.com/who-
> > betsy-devos-brother-erik-princes-involvement-blackwater-chinese-money-
> > laundering-2493834
> >
> > Just a hint of what is happening to education, top to bottom, in the US.
> >
> >
> > Helena
> >
> >
> > Helena Worthen
> > helenaworthen@gmail.com
> > Berkeley, CA 94707
> > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 8, 2017, at 3:15 PM, Stephen Diaz <EDiaz@csusb.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bruce,
> > >
> > > Don't know if you are still the one for xmcc but I am not getting any
> > emails from that list serve.  Can you please check on that.  I still want
> > to continue on it if possible.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Esteban Diaz
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >
> > on behalf of Bruce Jones <bjones@ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 3:23 PM
> > > To: mike cole; Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis
> > ... and TRUMP'S speech!
> > >
> > > On 2/5/17 2:39 PM, mike cole wrote:
> > >> Bruce's email is not bouncing from san diego.
> > >> Perhaps there is only one c in unsubscribe?
> > >
> > > Spelling mistakes will not cause bounces.  I do the unsubscribes by
> hand
> > > in order to make sure they are removed from the database.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruce Jones
> > > Sys Admin, LCHC
> > > bjones@ucsd.edu
> > > 619-823-8281
> > >
> > > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>

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