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[Xmca-l] Re: perezhivanie

Dear xmca colleagues,

"So my point is: generating multiple different terms for /perezhivanie/ in
this or that circumstance places an obligation on the writer to show how
one transforms into the other. Such a transformation process is not *yet
another form* of /perezhivanie/ but the content of the processes undergoing
transformation." Thanks Professor Blunden to give some clarity to this

I though I was getting the grasp of the idea of perezhivanie, especially
through the works of Professor Nikolai Veresov, and I tried to summarize it
in a paper (the Culture & Psychology one attached bellow).

I was lost in all these threads and discussions on perezhivanie. I have the
same worries as Marc Clara about the phenomena that we are underpinning
under the tag "perezhivanie", but not only the phenomena of perezhivanie
but also the concept of perezhivanie. And there are other "perezhivanie",
this "m-perezhivanie", and reading a paper I found "soperezhivanie" and
"collective perezhivanie" (see attached paper from March and Fleer).

But this point of yours sets the start for the pathway through all these
"perezhivanie". Thanks

Wagner Luiz Schmit

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Marc Clarà <marc.clara@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Andy,
> In my opinion, it is important, and especially in this topic, to be precise
> about the phenomena or the aspects of the phenomena which are under
> scrutiny; otherwise, scientific discussion and cumulative construction may
> become quite difficult. In this case, it might happen, I think, that
> different people interarticulate a formally coherent discourse talking of
> perezhivanie, and they think they are talking about the same object of
> study and about analogous observations, but in reality talking about
> different objects of study, or different aspects, or about observations
> which can be complementary (instead of in opposition, for example). The
> problem, in my view, is not that there are different focuses, aspects, etc.
> under research in relation to a phenomenon or different related phenomena;
> the problem may arise if observations about different aspects, for example,
> are counterpoised and discussed as if they were about the same aspect of
> the phenomenon.
> That's why I think it may be useful to make some distinctions, to gain some
> precision in the scientific work on perezhivanie. The first distinction,
> experiencing-as-contemplation and experiencing-as-struggle, is made by
> Vasilyuk (although with a different name for experiencing-as-struggle, as
> explained in the paper). He initially distinguishes these as two types of
> activity, although later suggests that experiencing-as-contemplation could
> be an initial moment for a subsequent experiencing-as-struggle (but not all
> experiencing-as-contemplation would necessarily imply
> experiencing-as-struggle). In experiencing-as-struggle, Vasilyuk also
> identifies the importance of the cultural meanings that mediate this
> activity -which he calls schematism,- and especially how these meanings are
> transformed in experiencing-as-struggle. In my interpretation, when
> Vygotsky talks of perezhivanie in The Problem of the Environment, he
> focuses mainly in this type of meaning. This is what in my comment I
> suggested to call m-perezhivanie.
> I agree with you, Andy, and I think this is also related to part of
> Alfredo's points, that there is no experiencing-as-struggle without a
> mediating m-perezhivanie which is transformed in the activity, so that,
> even analytically, this distinction could seem useless, because studying
> experiencing-as-struggle is the same as studying the transformation of
> m-perezhivanija, and viceversa. Still, I think that the distinction may be
> useful because I work with the hypothesis that this type of holistic
> meaning is key not only as a mediator in experiencing-as-struggle, but in
> many other types of activity (as I mentioned also in previous messages and
> also in the paper). Thus, what we learn about this type of mediating
> meaning in experiencing-as-struggle may inform also about other types of
> activities and viceversa. Also, and in the same vein, in my view this
> distinction helps to connect Vygotsky and Vasilyuk works on perezhivanie.
> Thus, note that, in The Problem of the Environment, Vygotsky does not
> consider what in my interpretation is m-perezhivanie as mediating in
> activities of experiencing-as-struggle, but instead he considers it,
> basically, as mediating in activities of experiencing-as-contemplation.
> I don't know if the terms I suggested are adequate or not, and I don't
> consider myself with authority enough to recommend one term over others,
> but I think that, regardless the terms used, we need to be precise about
> the phenomenon or aspects of the phenomenon we are addressing.
> Best regards,
> Marc.
> 2017-01-10 1:05 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>:
> > Marc, throughout the Special Issue we spelt /perezhivanie/ the same say
> > and put it in italics, indicating a Russian word transliterated into
> > English, and systematically had authors delete "experiencing" and "lived
> > experience" from their articles and even quotations, as part of an effort
> > to create a common meaning for the word. Summing up your position, in the
> > Response, you said:
> >
> >        In my reading (and I apologize in advance for any
> >        misinterpretations), the different papers in this
> >        special issue have basically noted four different
> >        phenomena that are sometimes referred to as
> >        /perezhivanie/. They might be considered four
> >        different meanings of the word. To distinguish
> >        between these meanings of /perezhivanie/, I will
> >        give them four different tentative names:
> >        experiencing-as-contemplation;
> >        experiencing-as-struggle; fantasy-based
> >        experiencing-as-struggle; and m-/perezhivanie/.
> >
> > What is your recommendation for future writers? Should they choose one of
> > these four terms? Or use /perezhivanie/ and qualify, or rely on context
> to
> > specify meaning?
> >
> > Andy
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> >

Attachment: CulturePsychology2016Schmit1354067X16663006.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Attachment: March and Fleer - 2016 - Soperezhivanie Dramatic events in fairy tales and.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document