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[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
- To: Alfredo Jornet Gil <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <email@example.com>
- Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
- From: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 09:27:54 -0800
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- Thread-topic: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
Rob, and Christopher, and Alfreda, and Marc,
This is an interesting reference to Nozick and achieving an experience without struggle. I want to refocus us on how this insight is an extension to Christopher’s posting. In particular the opening paragraph. The image of smashing to bits the bricks is wrapped up in the end moment of trans/hivanie.
SO the focus on what occurs before this end point central to Christopher’s question :
‘but is this how trans/hivanie works?’
AND Christopher answers by focusing on the :
‘extended back and forth, the REPEATED back and forth, the (living-through) that seems to be exemplary of trans/hivanie.
Marc says it is ‘this’ phenomena that brought him to trans/hivanie and not the other way around.
What is occurring within the ‘repetition’ being lived through.
As an aside Nozick turned to eastern philosophy from the Indian subcontinent for deeper inspiration. I could add more if interest warrants (possibly another thread).
ALSO, i recommend going to page 27 of Bella’s article (that Peter posted) to get a sense of Vygotsky’s extended repeated (living through) of the Jewish question that he was writing extensively about in 1916. On that page Bella refers to two articles Vygotsky wrote on this theme. One was in a (literary) mode while the other was written in a (psychological) mode. Trans/hivanie at work implicitly as formative of the later Vygotsky.
This topic, as Bella images as spaghetti tangles. In Vygotsky’s own words from 1916 on the incomprehensible riddle-like companion of Jewish history as :
‘riddle-like, inexplicability, the MYSTERY of Isreal .... eternal fellow traveler of the eternal people, the SECRET of the eternity of the Jewish people’
To further this strand we should possibly keep distinct from this month’s article. However the theme of ‘repetition’ that had the mood of profound struggle or at a deeper level a mood of no movement and closed off, is the process occuring which maybat some point in time erupt as smashing 2016 to bits and bricks scattering as an act of ‘deconstruction’ that i believe can loose the reality of what came before, starting with Bella’s zero stage that is (existential). A time when the person traversing the zero stage should be ‘recognized’ through moral/ethical care and concern. Not a journey of (mineness) through Heidegger which is a protesting protestant approach, but through mitsein as living-through.
I hope my referencing multiple speakers but trying to stay within strands is clear?
Perezhivanie as trans/hivanie as Marc says is approached through multiple pluaristic traditions that are psychological, literary, and philosophical and extend through historical consciousness as the living-through repetitive back and forth traversal that INCLUDES as central the PAUSE or MA or INTERVAL or GAP.
Sent from my Windows 10 phone
From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
Sent: January 6, 2017 7:17 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
Rob, how appropriate the thought experiment!
From: email@example.com <firstname.lastname@example.org> on behalf of R.J.S.Parsons <email@example.com>
Sent: 06 January 2017 15:41
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
necessary, and therefore there is no development.
Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that which
is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something which
is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment breaks
the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
existence as a unit is.
*Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
> It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie), partly
> because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back process
> evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at odds with
> a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and even
> violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is wrapped
> up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it comes,
> can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
> embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that how
> perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
> 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using particular
> metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so defined
> by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question of
> what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
> figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as opposed to
> living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to capture/represent
> one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
> 2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and force,
> either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
> "ends"? (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
> conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity required.
> But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and does
> Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
> possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful" notion
> of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
> On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not yet
>> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the nation/world.
>> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new year.
>> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of perezhivanie?
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
>> email@example.com> wrote:
>>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: mike cole <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] New Year's Perezhivanie
>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <email@example.com>
>>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
>>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my experience
>>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
>>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide us
>>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
>>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
>>>> Feliz año nuevo!