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[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

And this machine thinks I'm a fraud. Hmmm. Perhaps it knows more than I 
do !?!?!?


On 06/01/2017 14:41, R.J.S.Parsons wrote:
> [This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who they appear to be. Learn about spoofing at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSpoofing]
> In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
> Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
> explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
> stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
> subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
> machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
> machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
> that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
> struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
> necessary, and therefore there is no development.
> Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
> in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that which
> is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something which
> is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
> is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment breaks
> the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
> existence as a unit is.
> *Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
> Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzX6b1YJHI
> Rob
> On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
>> It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie), partly
>> because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back process
>> evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at odds with
>> a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and even
>> violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is wrapped
>> up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it comes,
>> can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
>> embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that how
>> perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
>> 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using particular
>> metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so defined
>> by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question of
>> what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
>> figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as opposed to
>> living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to capture/represent
>> one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
>>    2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and force,
>> either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
>> "ends"?  (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
>> conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity required.
>> But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and does
>> Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
>> possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful" notion
>> of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
>> On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not yet
>>> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the nation/world.
>>> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new year.
>>> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of perezhivanie?
>>> :-)
>>> Mike
>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
>>> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
>>>> Chuck
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>>>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  New Year's Perezhivanie
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
>>>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my experience
>>>>> of
>>>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
>>>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide us
>>> with
>>>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
>>>> perezhivanie?
>>>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
>>>>> Feliz año nuevo!
>>>>> Mike