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[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: Zuckerman's 2016 article and "what would aneducationbe?"

 Well, here is a speculative question which may interest Galina: to what
degree is "voice" (situated identity and active orientation towards
particular role-meanings) considered in the platform (the group sustaining
their inquiry) established?

>From one perspective it does not matter too much whether it is considered,
so long as the students attend and respond to the imagery they experience.
Does one even try to distinguish "active persona" on a
scientific/repeatable basis?

On the other hand it may lend further leverage into discerning the
conflicts and associations between "voice".  E.g. whether the direct
(rather than group-mediated) voice of the teacher does not directly block
the students creative and reflexive consideration, but rather that it
powerfully evokes a particular formalised voice on the part of the student.
The consideration was that this might be an appropriate way to link
dialogical (i.e. Bakhtin) considerations to the cognitive aspects of AT and
(perhaps) the implicit thought modes accompanying them.

As I see it, this still supports the adult-child participations,
particularly with respect to directives, e.g. the short verb phrases
commonly acquired by infants/toddlers.  At home we have a delightful phrase
that moved from a caution to mocking (which I think may have been started
by our youngest) which is "Tell-you-off!" it is full off mock reprimand and
gruffly spoken when someone isn't following the script (toddlers love

Another thought I had regarding platforms was that when I was at
primary/middle school computers were practically shunned by adults, which
was brilliant. Not only could one devote lots of uninterrupted time to
building things that worked out of one's imagination, the adults would nod
approvingly and say to themselves that the child was learning "computer
skills".  Micro-computers at that juncture not only provided an operating
system platform (usually manifesting as a little blinking cursor, inviting
you to write a program) they established a social space/platform too.  But
not only that, the computer housed the reflections of one's ideas which,
just like one's attention, could be brought to life in an instant.


On 5 December 2016 at 17:02, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues -- Here is my quick translation of Galina's response to my
> invitation to join the discussion of her paper. (Note that she refers to
> reflexive thinking which is the topic of a second paper I am not sure
> everyone has obtained).
> I would emphasize her point that this work was written in the 1980's,
> published in 2000, and available to us only now in English. These temporal
> facts and their implications in terms of judgments about the political
> context of the work ought to be kept in mind when interpreting aspects of
> the text. Speaking personally, Phillip's comments about the common values
> across different systems of state sponsored mass education provide a
> reasonable interpretive framework.
> Here are Galina's comments:
> Michael -
> I send you a book file, part of which has been translated and is now being
> discussed. I am of two minds about participating in the discussion. Do I
> want to participate in the discussion? Yes and no. Yes, because I have
> never tired of learning. No, because I am tired of the socio-political
> myths that gradually sinks discussion.
> With regard to the politics. El'konin and Davydov were and remain
> dissidents both in relation to their own times, and in the new millennium;
> and in their personal behavior and professional accomplishments are
> important for me, because I love these people and their ideas.
> The book *How do younger school children learn to learn?* (from which the
> article was selected). It was published in 2000 and written in the late
> 80s. Is it outdated? Yes and no. Obsolete are the specific examples of
> learning situations I used to illustrate various pedagogical ideas. But the
> specific instructional situations described, as a rule, were recorded on
> the day of testing: the result of the main lessons from a good teacher - an
> understanding of how today's ideas could be implemented better, fuller, and
> more clearly remain useful. What has not aged are ideas about interpsychic
> action, illustrated by these learning situations. At present I will mention
> only two:
> 1) Education always introduces asymmetries into development, supporting
> some potential opportunities and age not supporting others. The dream of
> all-round harmonious development is unattainable due to the specific
> relationship of instruction and development.
> 2) For the *reflexive development* of the child, interaction with adults
> who are familiar and knowledgeable about the subject matter needs to be
> supplemented by interaction with peers who do not know the answers and are
> not more knowledgeable. This [dual necessity] is on the one hand, well
> known and repeatedly demonstrated, but on the other hand, it is constantly
> ignored. For me, this is important because it makes re-think one of the
> most quoted sayings of Vygotsky: "Zone of Proximal Development - is the
> distance between the level of a child's actual development as determined by
> the tasks presented that are accomplished independently, and the level of
> potential development, determined by means of a procedure in which problems
> are solved under the leadership of adults or in collaboration with more
> knowledgeable peers."
> ​Is this another way of formulating Ed Wall's idea of rigor and
> responsiveness in pedagogical terms? Sort of like modes and relations of
> production one might say.
> mike​
> ​
>  21-kak-mlsch-uchatsa_2000.pdf
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7y1a3DKSsQJWTNSN3BRNll0Znc/
> view?usp=drive_web>
> ​
> >
> >>>
> >>>