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[Xmca-l] Re: That other political crisis

I meant "I do think the voters perceived ... as quite moderate"
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
Sent: 10 November 2016 15:39
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That other political crisis

Hi David,

yes, Spain has moved to the right after socialist governments in what in Spain we refer to as bi-partidism: always two main options (in Spain, as I believe in most of Europe, the colours are reversed as compared to US, the socialist-inclined party is red and the right-ish party blue).

I see the point of your comparison, but I should say that when Aznar's government won, his campaign, and the way the party (which, you are right, was formed by the most direct heritors of Francoism) presented itself was very different to the now spread populist far-right campaigns. I read now a post at "El Pais" from 1996, a then socialist inclined newspaper (today totally submitted to other powers), which referred to Aznar and his party as "centre-right." Although today PP's (Aznar's party) heritage and profile are evident to everyone in Spain, I do not think the voters at the time (and note that they won by a small margin) perceived Aznar and his party as quite moderate, and even sophisticated, and not as the extremes that the other more clearly fascist-like cases (Trump, Le Pen...) are perceived today.

For good or for bad, today's Spanish political landscape is more colourful, with at least two new big forces (one to the left of the once socialists, and one to the right of the latter; the socialists no longer knowing well who they are). So that now there are four colours, purple, red, orange, and blue. We could be closer to the rainbow, though.


From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
Sent: 09 November 2016 20:47
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That other political crisis

Thoughtful and care-full as always, Mike. The link you sent wasn't full of
errors, but it also wasn't very full of information: it faithfully
reflected the questions that most people have (Why, for example, should a
friendship between two women be a matter for scandal and street
demonstrations?). It also didn't really answer them.

But maybe this one will (Greg--if you are not following the scandal through
Mark's work on Cheondoism then you might want to give this to your


Last night I was thinking to myself, with some astonishment, that 2016
represents the first time since 1933 that a major Western country has voted
in a far right government with a violent, extraparliamentary base. When
Marine Le Pen began "Euro-fascism", I had thought it would probably happen
in France or Austria or Switzerland first. The fact that it has happened in
the USA (and that it happened through social media but largely without a
parliamentary "ground game" of the sort that people on this list were
engaged in) astonished me, and I fell asleep thinking that xmca might want
to revisit the PPTization of intellectual arguments, the nature of media
like twitter, and the ways in which Trump's speeches were constructed on
the fly, in order to really understand it. (I keep thinking of his uncanny
ability to end every sentence on a fall, except when he is constructing
a speech act around a vacuum--"I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin',

But this morning when I woke up I realized that it has happened before, and
that Alfredo can probably tell us a lot about it. Spain, after years of
Francoism, underwent an eight year experiment with social democracy and
then voted in a neo-Francoist party under Aznar. Similarly, South Korea,
after years of murderous repression under the current president's father
and his military academy juniors (Jeon Duhwan and Noh Tae-u, the "Class of
56", who succeeded Bak Jeonghi when he was assassinated) underwent a ten
year experiment with something like social democracy--this coincided with
my own rather carelessly made decision to settle there--before voting in
the current president on a similar neo-authoritarian platform. Something
there is about a frantic petty bourgeoisie that loves a wall.

Mutatis mutandis.

David Kellogg
Macquarie University

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:27 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Having worked until time was up, I have had time to go back and read some
> of what has been discussed.
> The outcome of the election is there for all to consider and experience in
> the weeks and months ahead.
> I attach an article for those who do not (like me) know much about the
> current political crisis in South Korea. David will correct the errors in
> it i am confident, and it appears to give at least a hint of the turmoil in
> that part of the world.
> it can be found here, last time i looked  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/
> 11/06/world/asia/south-koreans-ashamed-over-les-secretive-adviser.html
> mike

Status: O