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[Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception of visualillusions.

The notion of "inner feeling" within situations which is felt through
participation in situations is a notion that is gestured towards in early
hermeneutical writings.
The assumption that the situation itself expresses a feeling which then
becomes articulated. I believe Dewey's "Having an Experience" that is
aesthetic is an example of articulating this phenomena. However the
ordinary situation also has this character.

The second aspect [notions of the temporal] I also am curious to explore
 The temporal domain in the saccadic movement of "minding the gap" is one
I would also point to Fonagy's work on primary intersubjectivity and his
central idea of "felt attunement between mother and infant. What is
critical in his analysis is the centrality of MARKED affect. If the mother
just mimics or copies the babies expressions [mirrors the baby's affect it
produces extreme dis-stress and dis-regulation. However, if the mother
"modulates" her responsiveness [changing the rhythm, amplifying or
softening the tone etc. the infant is animated remaining engaged in the
reciprocal felt "dance" of attunement.
I read this as another aspect of "minding the gap"
Finally I will give the example of scientism that holds an ideal of
"repeatability" as producing a one to one relation. I wonder if the
dis-tress culturally of the expectation of meeting "standards" that are
measured and repeatable can be understood as analogous to the mirroring
affect that creates extreme agitation in new born infants.

The way our theories present different notions of the "structure" of
temporality may be implicated in this pre-occupation with a "mechanical"
mirroring notion of repeatability and representation and mimesis.
I will offer one particular interpretation of temporality that may get
beyond what Richard Bernstein calls Cartesian Anxiety.
Cartesian anxiety is an either/or anxiety. EITHER there must exist some
foundational objective criteria from which to proceed OR their is only free
floating relativism and no way to determine the merits of different

Heiddeger's notion of a characteristic of  temporality he calls "thrown
The recognition that we are "thrown" into the "given" of our situations and
cannot escape this reality as a primary material factor.
Equally primary is that within this given we have the possibility to
imagine the "not yet" possible [but could be] of future  anticipation.

The relation of determinate giveness [the thrown] and the equally
indeterminate factor of the "not yet" imaginal seems to be a structure with
potential to be further elaborated.

I will summarize by saying "inner feeling" that occurs within situations
[subject matter that matters] is a characteristic or quality that requires
modulation using analogous terms such as [attunement, oscillation,
resonance] indicating a felt reality that then becomes articulated AFTER
the felt understanding is already present.
This is an "intersubjective" notion that says the felt situation is prior
to the unfolding of subjectivity.
It is one approach attempting to go beyond what Richard Bernstein
identifies as an either/or anxiety at the heart of modernism.

Henry, I am not sure if any of this is relevant, but Joseph Weiss writes
about these topics in his dissertation focusing on the work of Benjamin and
Adorno so may have some relevance.
I myself am way "over my head" on these topics and need a ZPL [learning] to
assist in my quest.
But this is what I am exploring with the guidance of this learning community

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 4:42 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Larry,
>> As always, your post informs and inspires, though I doubt my own will be
>> inspirational. I don’t mean it to be, even when how I say something seems
>> to aspire to inspiration.
>> Saccadic eye movements have especially been on my radar since I read that
>> they are important to understanding both the cognitive grammar of Langacker
>> and the gap minding of the CHAT. (Though Langacker devotes much less ink to
>> it than the CHAT people.) It’s all about imagination. And CAN be about
>> creativity, when imagination is disciplined and ethical. Or so I see it.
>> Visual illusions are the key to magic. Misdirection. The idea that the
>> world in our mind is simply a faithful, “factual" replica of the world “out
>> there” is hard to shake. I would say that magic ranks up there with gesture
>> as a generative metaphor for what it is to be and act as a  human.
>> I like the juxtaposition of structure and fluency, think it captures the
>> connection between grammar and language use, grammar being usage based. You
>> elaborate on reading fluency, but the idea is general, as you say:
>> > "I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond
>> "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas
>> within our acts.
>> > This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner
>> feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a
>> single person's mind.”
>> The idea of the “'inner feeling’ of the event” is intriguing. Would that
>> relate in any way to inner speech, the way Vygotsky construes it? As in,
>> how do I know what I am going to write until I’ve written it?
>> I also like the juxtaposition of fluency and rhythm. Temporality.
>> Somehow, the temporal domain seems to me to be the most basic of basic
>> domains, even more basic than the spatial domain. Though I can’t prove it.
>> It certainly feels that way to me. Does this go beyond the inner feeling in
>> my individual mind?
>> Henry
>> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Henry,
>> > The saccadic eye movements indicating the centrality of minding the gap
>> is literally a fact.
>> > The question which this fact opens is the factor of gaps within other
>> event structures.
>> > For example when exploring structures being generated  we imagine
>> "bridges" linking and overcoming the gaps between.
>> > However minding the gap indicates the profound necessity of the gap
>> > If we fail to "mind" (or bridge) the gap is the gap still a
>> constitutive aspect IN ITSELF?
>> > For example, with gesture, there is the rhythmic movement in relation
>> to the other. However, besides the two participants moving in rhythm is the
>> reality of the gap (or intervals) that "open" within the rhythmic gestures
>> also another profoundly relevant factor in the ensuing rhythmic gestures?
>> > I am "reading" the concept "gap" as a key metaphor.
>> > Eric Fromm described western notions of God as residing in a person's
>> beliefs (thoughts) of God.
>> > In contrast Buddhism and Taoism focus not on beliefs but on right
>> "action". They also have sophisticated elaborations of the "gap".
>> > I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond
>> "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas
>> within our acts.
>> > This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner
>> feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a
>> single person's mind.
>> >
>> > A concrete example is the structure of the concept "reading fluency".
>> Three characteristics have been "identified in this concept (word accuracy
>> - rate of words in a measured time - prosody or tone).
>> > I am suggesting this third characteristic -prosody/tone - is the "inner
>> feeling" within the event of reading fluency.
>> > This has to do with rhythm and gaps.
>> > Are saccadic eye movements and the rhythm of prosody  sharing a family
>> resemblance (not an identity) that comes back to Dewey's notion of having
>> an experience?
>> > Larry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com>
>> > Sent: ‎2015-‎10-‎01 12:40 PM
>> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception of
>> visualillusions.
>> >
>> > Something that has intrigued me, and may be relevant to the thread, has
>> been how I can “freeze” the movement of my overhead fans by voluntarily
>> jerking my eyes back and forth as I gaze at the revolving fan blades. When
>> I keep my eyes fixed, the blades blur. When I jerk my eyes back and forth,
>> the blades seem to stop. Or so I perceive it. In the Pelaprat & Cole
>> article (2011) on mending the gap, Etienne and Mike discuss saccadic eye
>> movements as “central to the perception of the world”.
>> > Henry
>> >
>> >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:06 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 1 October 2015 at 19:27, Martin John Packer <
>> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> So it's filling the gap again!  :)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Or minding it, yes.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin
>> >>>
>> >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:13, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:11, Martin John Packer <
>> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Huw,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Might this be an artifact of the digital encoding of the video?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Could you head to a tube station and try it with a real train?  :)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I suspect you'd need strobe lighting.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Huw
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> E.g.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://vimeo.com/116582567
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Martin
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I came across this meme/advert on linkedin, which is an animation
>> of a
>> >>>>>> tube
>> >>>>>>> train:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>
>> https://buffer-pictures.s3.amazonaws.com/c2f41e8d32861d26bdecfc62f0d979e3.f009ceaeaf27dba4eb65f2ca247e9513.php
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Ignoring the glib annotation, it did seem to be a little
>> interesting
>> >>> to
>> >>>>>>> discover if there was a reliable way to manipulate the perception
>> of
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>>> direction of the train.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Interestingly, this is something that I find I can do by imagining
>> >>> that
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>> can see an object within the train moving in the direction I
>> wish, so
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> perceived direction can be switched at will -- i.e. the
>> perception of
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> train can be shuttled back and forth.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure whether conditioning of memories of living in London
>> >>> would
>> >>>>>>> influence this (it is a London tube train).  Also, the speed at
>> which
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> train is going suggests its going away, because a train coming
>> into a
>> >>>>>>> platform would usually, I think, be going slower.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>>> Huw
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >