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[Xmca-l] Re: Having an experience

No, no, Beth. As Dewey says:

   "This unity is neither emotional, practical, nor
   intellectual, for these terms name distinctions that
   reflection can make within it. In discourse//about//an
   experience, we must make use of these adjectives of
   interpretation. In going over an experience in
   mind//after/ /its occurrence, we may find that one
   property rather than another was sufficiently dominant
   so that it characterizes the experience as a whole."

Isn't this beautiful scientific prose! We make these distinction when we *reflect* on an experience. And perhaps we include the experience in our autobiography, act it out on the stage, analyse it scientifically, all of which presupposes analysis and synthesis. But it is important to recognise that the unity is prior. It is not only a unity of emotion and cognition (for example) but also of attention and will - and any other categories you abstract from an experience.

*Andy Blunden*
On 17/07/2015 3:00 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
Or reproducing the part that represents the whole? Like a fractal? I think it is the similarity across scales that makes an experience proleptic, or gives that 'bliss conferred at the beginning of the road to redemption" that Vasilyuk refers to. You have an experience on several timescales and so a sense of deja-vu is central to having an experience. This is what I am thinking about after reading both the paper of Dewey's and your recent piece on perezhivanie, Andy, although I am picking up on a small piece of the last email in this chain -- : If something is only itself in its whole then you can't study it, is what is bothering me. Beth

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    Not "getting at something", Michael. Just pursuing
    this question you raised about Dewey's saying that the
    aesthetic quality of medieval buildings arises from
    their not being "planned" like buildings are nowadays.
    He goes on to say "Every work of art follows the plan
    of, and pattern of, a complete experience." The puzzle
    he is raising here is the completeness of an
    experience which gives it its aesthetic quality, and
    this cannot be created by assembling together parts in
    the way a modern building is planned. An experience -
    the kind of thing which sticks in your mind - is an
    original or prior unity, not a combination, and this
    is what gives a work of art that ineffable quality,
    something which can only be transmitted by reproducing
    that whole of an experience.

    *Andy Blunden*
    On 17/07/2015 2:32 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote:


        I'm still not sure about your question.  Did I set
        out to have that experience, that morning...no, I
        don't think so (it was a long time ago, but I'm
        pretty sure no).  Could I have just treated it as
        an indiscriminate activity, probably, I had done
        so before.

        But I am guessing you're getting a something here


        -----Original Message-----
        xmca-l-bounces+glassman.13=osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of
        Andy Blunden
        Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:21 PM
        To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
        Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Having an experience

        YOu said: "... But that time I had the experience
        with the paintings..."

        I mean that was an experience. Did you set out
        that morning to have that experience?
        RE, your question: "what does he mean when he says
        you can't do things indiscriminately and have
        vital experience, but you also can't plan things?"

        *Andy Blunden*
        On 17/07/2015 2:09 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote:

            Well I'm not sure I understand your question
            Andy, but perhaps it has
            something to do with my grandfather's favorite
            saying (translated from

            Man plans, God laughs.


            -----Original Message-----
            On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
            Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:04 PM
            To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
            Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Having an experience

            So Michael, there was just that one occasion,
            in all your museum-going, when you had an
            experience. Was that planned?
            (I don't mean to say you haven't had a number
            of such experiences,
            Michael ... just some number actually)

            *Andy Blunden*
            On 17/07/2015 1:19 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote:

                Hi Larry and all,

                I think this is one of the most complex
                aspects of experience, what does he mean
                when he says you can't do things
                indiscriminately and have vital
                experience, but you also can't plan
                things?  I have discussed (argued) about
                this a lot with my students.  I have
                especially seen him raise this point in at
                least two of his great works, Democracy
                and Education and Experience and Nature -
                and again of course in Art as Experience
                (notice he is not saying how Art enters
                into experience but how art is experience
                - I have come to notice these little
                things more and more in his writing).

                The difficulty we have, at least in the
                United States because of the dominance of
                the idea of meta-cognition, is that we too
                often translate what individuals are
                bringing in to experience to organize it
                as a form of meta-cognition.  It is kind
                of possible to make that interpretation
                from Democracy and Education, although
                what I think he is doing more is arguing
                against misinterpretations of his work as
                random, child centered activities.  I
                think he is clearer in Experience and
                Nature that we bring in who we are at the
                moment into the activity, and use who we
                are (I don't want to say identity) as an
                organizing principle for what we do.  It
                is perhaps one of the places where Dewey
                and Vygotsky are close.  Perhaps I can use
                the same Jackson Pollock example.  The
                first few times I saw his paintings I was
                trying to "apprecitate" them because I was
                told that was the best way to experience
                them.  Dewey says no vital experience
                there because my activities become stilted
                and artificia
                    l.  Sometimes I went through the
                museum and just looked at pictures, one to
                the other.  No vital experience there,
                just random threads. But that time I had
                the experience with the paintings I was
                allowing who I was, what had been built up
                in the trajectory of my life to enter into
                my experience with the painting, making it
                a vital experience.  I think Dewey makes
                the argument in Experience and Nature that
                it is not just the experience the moment
                before, but the experiences leading to
                that experience, the context of my life,
                of my parent's life, of a long line of
                historical experiences.

                Anyway, my take.



Beth Ferholt
Assistant Professor
Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
Brooklyn College, City University of New York
2900 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Phone: (718) 951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
Fax: (718) 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>