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[Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

Bravo, mike,

One of the odd things I'm finding about this thread is that we can find examples where the social has nothing to do with biology and vice versa, and then we have scenarios in which the biology forms the social and the social forms the biology. 

It feels kind of chicken-eggy.

In light of this, each person on the thread could take one of these and argue one's corner, much like the blind men and the elephant. 

As you, I was also trying to consider the definition of a crisis, but with a different biology of late adulthood. Can compare-and-contrasting with childhood offer any insights? 

I will read the Bozovicb article which you so gently suggest we look at. Which focuses upon adolescents where there is a great number of crises, being on the edge of childhood and of adulthood at the same time. 

Is it that human crisis as we are discussing it here, has the same criteria no matter the age? or are there different types of crises? In other words is there a crisis prototype to we can determine at any age? 

Or are there some crises generated by social dynamics and others by biology, which then instead of being chicken-eggy are Möbius-strippy?

Kind regards,


From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 9:54 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

I find it a little odd to think that SSD has little to do with biological
So few 6 month olds get married these days.

However, the "structuring of forms the child does not yet 'have' " is
certainly central
to the sociocultural organization of human development. Among other things,
in timing between adult normative expectations and child behaviors
associated with, say,
the maturation of bowel control or the ability to sit quietly at a desk for
several hours at a time
might just give rise to the kinds of phenomena that lSV refers to as

I am not sure. What are the criteria for a crisis? Are they generally
agreed upon and to be found
in practice-guiding texts for, say, professional pediatricians?

It seems that the attached may be relevant to several of the remarks in
this thread.



On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

> I think I agree with that (that SSD has little to do with biological
> maturation).
> This is actually, to my reading, a subtle yet very appropriate passage that
> Peg has unearthed or recollected.
> These things that the child really does need, wherein the child conveys "I
> cannot get on without this", is a reference to materials that enable the
> structuring of forms that the child does not yet have, i.e. they are
> necessary (but perhaps insufficient on their own) means to their
> development of neo-formations, or, indeed, transformations in their way of
> knowing.
> The sense I get is that this imperative is not derived from a need to
> comply with bureaucratic processes (e.g. black shoes must be worn at
> school), but with a recognition that something objective and fundamental
> cannot be achieved without it.
> Huw
> On 22 March 2015 at 00:38, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > p. 365, "The Child's Psyche":
> >
> > "A child may or may not be bought a toy, but it is impossible not to buy
> > it a textbook or an exercise book. The child therefore requests a
> > schoolbook to be bought for it quite differently to how it asks for a toy
> > to be bought. These requests have a different sense not only for its
> > parents but above all for the child itself."
> >
> > I was thinking, in relation to Huw's issues, that really SSD is little to
> > do with "biological maturation." It is to do with the normative series of
> > roles, and these are found in bureaucracies as well as the modern life
> of a
> > child.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >
> >
> > Peg Griffin wrote:
> >
> >> Thinking of growth which challenges social arrangements, Andy, am I
> >> mistakenly remembering an anecdote like the following in Leontiev's
> >> "Problems in the Development of Mind:"  A child not yet going to school
> and
> >> a child going to school have different "calls" on the family to buy
> pencils
> >> or crayons -- might be nice for the younger one but absolute need for
> the
> >> older one.   I hope this scenario is really there (or somewhere not
> just in
> >> my internal constructions] because in it socio-cultural institutions
> impact
> >> one another and pull in the individual's growth while doing it and then
> >> there's a wonderful arabesque rebound to the individual.
> >> [Sorry I don't right now have a copy and a way to get to where this
> might
> >> be in the Leontiev book.  Hint:) I'm really pretty sure it's far away
> from
> >> the part about trying to teach forearm cells to recognize light! ] Peg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object
that creates history. Ernst Boesch.