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RE: [xmca] Banners of Brazil



Fernanda and Andy. In time: "in all ideological sign there is a confrontation of contradictory value's index. The sign becomes an arena where develops class struggle" (my amateur translation from portuguese:  “em todo signo ideológico confrontam-se índices de valor contraditórios. O signo se torna a arena onde se desenvolve a luta de classes” (Bakhtin [Voloshinov], 1992b – p. 46 - I can find in Russian if you wish). Can we suppose that in all kind o ideological struggle both sides can win or lost in certain measure, don't you agree? Only in order to continue dialog. No agreements can be very welcome too... 
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Banners of Brazil
> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 22:09:44 +0000
> 
> Fernanda, don't forget that development could also have "involution" moments, sometimes. There is not always only a inexorable progress, has in positivist analysis... Indeed, human development, social by definition, can not be only a spontaneous process, without orientation and direction by the dialogic relation with social other, that can not be, all the times, totally horizontal, symmetric and democratic or polyphonic. Don't you think about something like this too? Kisses. Achilles. 
> 
> > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:47:46 -0300
> > From: liberali@uol.com.br
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Banners of Brazil
> > 
> > Hi, everyone!
> > 
> > For Brazilian standards, being in a movement does not simply mean moving 
> > and shouting, it means talking, discussing, disagreeing, finding new 
> > people to talk to and to agree and disagree with. The most important 
> > thing in this movement, in my opinion, is not the fact that people are 
> > going to the streets but the fact that, no matter what rank of life, 
> > people are discussing and believing in their power of protesting. There 
> > has been the most amazing things going on: skatists fighting for the 
> > right to use the streets for their purposes, millionaires in front of 
> > the governor's house fighting for more security for the district where 
> > they have their mansions, very poor people demanding the reconstruction 
> > of roads long not taken care of. I believe that in the Brazilian 
> > context, going to the streets to claim for the 20 cents and all the 
> > other issues or staying home on the internet discussing them have the 
> > effect that electing a worker had, 12 years ago. In a collective 
> > perezivanie, people start to believe in themselves as capable of going 
> > beyond, of transforming who they are into who they can become. I believe 
> > this is the greatest result of this movement just as it was the greatest 
> > result of Lula's election in 2002.
> > 
> > Best.
> > 
> > Fernanda
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 6/25/13 10:23 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > > Cristiano, Achilles, and everyone,
> > > We see a lot of marching in the streets. But while this has an 
> > > important function in drawing people out of their homes and gathering 
> > > them together, especially when there is violence it can have the 
> > > effect also of excluding a lot of people, and actually, marching 
> > > doesn't involve a lot of talking. With "alliance politics" of the kind 
> > > which is in the ascendant today, different projects can agree on very 
> > > limited and specific goals (e.g. we will march to the President's 
> > > Palace at 2pm on Saturday), while not being able to agree on anything 
> > > else. This politics opens the way for deeper engagement, but does not 
> > > in itself achieve that. So,...
> > >
> > > Are there any new discursive forms of practice - mock parliaments, 
> > > community forums, school occupation committees, etc or whatever emerging?
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > mattos@if.usp.br wrote:
> > >>
> > >> There is much we can talk about and reflect on this Brazilian 
> > >> collective phenomenon.
> > >>
> > >> We could propose multiple and combined "germ cells" or to infer what 
> > >> emerging agendas will resist in the ?day after".
> > >>
> > >> But, what is clear is that there was a potential social configuration 
> > >> that has suffered a phase transition, and mediated by different means 
> > >> of mediation, many self-organized, creating crowds moving by 
> > >> pseudopods, spreading through the cities with different leading 
> > >> motives or interests, a kind of new born organism learning to be 
> > >> yourself in its on ?inconclusion?.
> > >>
> > >> There was more than 20 years since we had this kind of movement in 
> > >> Brazil, it is a long time considering the social tragedy we live in 
> > >> our daily lives, the crazy tension of living between the medieval and 
> > >> ultra-modern times and praxis.
> > >>
> > >> For me, considering my "nanogenesis", the worth was witnessing the 
> > >> emergence of consciousness in my daughters (11 and 13 years old), on 
> > >> the possibility of the social collective action aiming to transform 
> > >> the immediately given even with different motives and interests.
> > >>
> > >> For those who believe that from first neighbor interaction could 
> > >> emerge on long range interactions and on phase system?s transitions, 
> > >> I think that all of this could be the start of something different 
> > >> from the sameness and hopelessness our people were living.
> > >>
> > >> Best for all, Cristiano.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Cristiano Mattos
> > >> Departamento de Física Experimental
> > >> Instituto de Física - USP
> > >> Caixa Postal:66318 - CEP:05315-970
> > >> São Paulo - SP - Brazil
> > >> Tel: (+55)11 3091-7077
> > >> e-mail: mattos@if.usp.br
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Quoting "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>:
> > >>
> > >>> For sure, Achilles, we cannot at all see the "unit of analysis" or 
> > >>> "germ cell" of this movement, or what project(s) will emerge from 
> > >>> it. I suspect that will take some time before that is discernible. 
> > >>> In ascending from the concrete of perception to the abstract, we at 
> > >>> least can see here a glimpse of the enormous diversity of views and 
> > >>> situations which are activated by the protest originally against the 
> > >>> rise in bus fares!
> > >>>
> > >>> Watch this space!! :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Andy
> > >>>
> > >>> Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
> > >>>> Sure. But this is only a little elementary fragment of the whole, 
> > >>>> not necessarily a unit... I guess the unit is not the 
> > >>>> undiscriminated topics of the agenda, itself. But the contradiction 
> > >>>> between this first character against a (explicit or not) trying of 
> > >>>> political conduction of all (which is also in process of 
> > >>>> polarization)...
> > >>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 11:38:24 +1000
> > >>>>> From: ablunden@mira.net
> > >>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >>>>> Subject: [xmca] Banners of Brazil
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I think everyone on this list will appreciate this glimpse into 
> > >>>>> the consciousness of the current movement in Brazil.
> > >>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/21/world/americas/brazil-protest-signs.html?ref=americas 
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Andy
> > >>>>> (as well as the cool javascript)
> > >>>>> -- 
> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *Andy Blunden*
> > >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > >>>>> http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> __________________________________________
> > >>>>> _____
> > >>>>> xmca mailing list
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>> __________________________________________
> > >>>> _____
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> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -- 
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > >>>
> > >>> *Andy Blunden*
> > >>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > >>> http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> > >>>
> > >>> __________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > 
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