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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience



The distinction is not quite the grammatical one, is it Carol? Meaning can be a noun and still be the name of an attribute of a symbol or artefact. "Attribute" is a noun. And it can still be a gerund, as a kind of noun, derived from the verb "to mean". So if "I meant to help you when I said that," "my meaning was to be helpful," with "meaning" here being the gerund referring to my speech act. I don't deny that "meaning" has taken on a certain usage and is widely taken to be the attribute of a word or phrase and found in a dictionary, but I think as a scientist I prefer to see such things as objectifications of the primary source which is human speech/speaking. I think the same distinctions can be discovered in perezhivanija, experiences and so on.

Andy

mike cole wrote:
Now how do we make sense of that, Carol?
:-)
mike

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 8:37 PM, <carolmacdon@gmail.com <mailto:carolmacdon@gmail.com>> wrote:

    No Andy, "meaning" is principally a noun of long standing,
    ossified. There are loads of examples of noun/verb pairs.
    Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
    Sender: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:39:57
    To: <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    Reply-To: ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>, "eXtended
    Mind, Culture,
            Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience

    Yes, the use of "Thought" in lieu of "Thinking" and "Language" instead
    of "Speaking" is famous and widely recognised, but I have found that
    while noting this, people often stick to "meaning" as the
    attribute of a
    symbol rather than the gerund of an action verb.

    Andy

    mike cole wrote:
    > Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and
    Language"
    > vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
    > and Dilthey......
    >
    > Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
    > an interesting exercise!
    >
    > mike
    >
    > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
    >
    >     Oh I see!
    >     It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list
    fundamental
    >     human actions/relations which provide the foundation for
    language,
    >     along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial
    >     position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
    >     indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in
    >     this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
    >     "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's
    >     barrel in this context.
    >
    >     And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a
    process
    >     verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the
    >     English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse
    direction
    >     in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like
    "impact")
    >     being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in
    >     which James and Dewey were philosophising.
    >
    >     Andy
    >
    >     mike cole wrote:
    >
    >         A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a
    wooden or
    >         metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over
    >         significant periods of a human life span.
    >
    >         Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are
    groping the
    >         environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And
    >         given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process
    >         occurring over
    >
    >         time.
    >
    >         Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain,
    >         so to speak.
    >
    >         mike
    >
    >         On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
    >         <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
    >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
    >
    >             I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
    >             Andy
    >
    >             mike cole wrote:
    >
    >                 Those are both terrifically useful passages to
    think with,
    >                 Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really
    >         resonate to the
    >                 notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first
    >         passage, and
    >                 the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I
    think for the
    >                 latter that
    >                 barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way"
    >         /temporality/
    >                 is backgrounded.
    >
    >                 thanks!
    >                 mike
    >
    >
    >                 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
    >                 <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
    >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
    >                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
    >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>> wrote:
    >
    >                     What about this one Larry?
    >
    >                            ‘Experience’ is what James called a
    >         double-barreled
    >                 word. Like
    >                            its congeners, life and history, it
    >         includes /what/
    >                 men do and
    >                            suffer, /what/ they strive for, love,
    >         believe and
    >                 endure, and
    >                            /how/ men act and are acted upon, the
    ways
    >         in which
    >                 they do and
    >                            suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
    >         imagine –
    >                 in short,
    >                            processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
    >                 ‘double-barreled’ in
    >                     that
    >                            it recognizes in its primary integrity no
    >         division
    >                 between act
    >                            and material, subject and object, but
    >         contains them
    >                 both in an
    >                            unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and
    ‘thought’, as
    >                 James says
    >                     in the
    >                            same connection, are single-barreled;
    they
    >         refer to
    >                 products
    >                            discriminated by reflection out of
    primary
    >                 experience (1929
    >                     PJD:
    >                            256-7).
    >
    >                     Andy
    >
    >
    >                     Larry Purss wrote:
    >
    >                         Mike,
    >
    >                         On page 12 of the  article on Dewey's
    >         notionotion of
    >                         experience the theme
    >                         of experience AS
    >                         "life overcomes and transforms factors of
    >         opposition to
    >                         achieve higher
    >                         significance. Harmony and equilibrium
    are the
    >         resullts
    >                 not of
    >                         mechanical
    >                         processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of
    >         tension.  The
    >                 rhythmic
    >                         ALTERNATION
    >                         within the live creature BETWEEN unity and
    >         disunity
    >                 becomes
    >                         CONSCIOUS in
    >                         humans.  Emotion signifies BREAKS in
    >         experience which
    >                 are then
    >                         resolved
    >                         through reflective action"
    >
    >                         I thought this may be a way in to
    *start* the
    >                 conversational
    >                         dialogue  with
    >                         perezhivanie.
    >
    >                         Larry
    >
    >                         On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
    >                         <lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
    >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>>
    >
    >                 wrote:
    >
    >                                              Michael, Mike:
    >                             One more fragment on the  definition of
    >         sentipensante:
    >
    >                             Sentipensante pedagogy offers a
    transformative
    >                 vision of
    >                             education that
    >                             emphasizes the harmonic, complementary
    >         relationship
    >                             between the sentir of
    >                             intuition and the pensar of
    intellect and
    >         scholarship;
    >                             between teaching and
    >                             learning; between formal knowledge and
    >         wisdom; and
    >                 between
    >                             Western and
    >                             non-Western ways of knowing.
    >
    >                             Seems to have some family resemblance to
    >         this theme of
    >                             experience
    >                             Larry
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >                             On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM,
    Larry Purss
    >                             <lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:
    >
    >                                                        Mike,
    >                                 Thanks for this.
    >                                 Stanford Pub is a wonderful
    resource.
    >          I seem to
    >                                 download an author
    >                                 approximately once a month. For
    $10 you
    >                 support them
    >                                 and get the articles
    >                                 sent in a PDF format.
    >
    >                                 Michael , here is a link [in
    Spanish]
    >         to a youtube
    >                                 video of Orlando
    >                                 Fals-Borda discussing his
    understanding of
    >                 experience
    >                                 from the heart.
    >                                 If you have any articles in English
    >         which you can
    >                                 share, this seems to be
    >                                 exploring experience within "felt
    >         awareness".
    >                                 Seems to be a fascinating
    expansion of the
    >                                 understanding of experience.
    >
    >                                 Thanks, Michael and Mike
    >
    >                                 Larry
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo
    >
    >                                 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM,
    mike cole
    >                                 <lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:
    >
    >
    >          Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
    >                 a quick
    >                                     summary of Dewey on
    >                                     experience. Note that his ideas
    >         are considered
    >                                     unusual by the author.
    >                                     That
    >                                     Stanford pub seems very useful.
    >                                     mike
    >
    >
    >          http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp
    >
    >                                     On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
    >         Larry Purss
    >                                     <lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
    <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>>
    >
    >                                     wrote:
    >
    >
    >              Michael,
    >                                         I also found this site
    for Orlando
    >                 Fals Borda.
    >
    >         http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
    >                                         If it is off topic
    please ignore.
    >                 However, it
    >                                         is where my curiosity was
    >                                         called or invited.
    >
    >                                         Larry
    >
    >                                         On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
    11:40 AM,
    >                 Glassman,
    >                                         Michael <
    >
    >                glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
    >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
    >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
    >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
    <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>>
    >
    >
    >                  wrote:
    >                                                         Perhaps
    >         another avenue to
    >                                             explore might be
    Ortega y
    >         Gasset's
    >                 ideas on
    >                                             experience (which is
    >         probably in
    >                 some ways
    >                                             reflective of Dewey)
    >
    >                      which was
    >
    >                  appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
    >                 in the
    >                                             concept of vivencia -
    >
    >                      which is
    >
    >                  very compelling - and became an
    >                 important
    >                                             part of Fals-Borda's
    >
    >                      conception
    >
    >                  of Participatory Action Research.
    >                  This
    >                                             might then tie back
    to the
    >
    >                          earlier
    >
    >                        issue on PAR.
    >
    >                                             Michael
    >
    >          ________________________________________
    >                                             From:
    >         xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >
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    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >
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    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >         [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
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    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >
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    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
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    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>] on
    >
    >
    >                          behalf
    >
    >                        of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>]
    >
    >                                             Sent: Monday,
    February 18,
    >         2013
    >                 2:28 PM
    >                                             To: Beth Ferholt
    >                                             Cc: Galina
    Zuckerman; John
    >                 Shotter; Boris
    >                                             Meshcheryakov; eXtended
    >
    >                      Mind,
    >
    >                  Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
    >                                             Alexander Asmolov
    >                                             Subject: Re: [xmca]
    >         Perezhivanie and
    >                                             Dewey's concept of
    experience
    >
    >                                             Thanks Beth--
    >
    >                                             I ask, firstly,
    because there
    >                 appear quite
    >                                             clear overlaps as
    you and
    >
    >                          Monica
    >
    >                        have been exploring.
    >
    >                                             Secondly, we have two
    >         submissions
    >                 to MCA
    >                                             on perezhivanie that are
    >
    >                      very
    >
    >                  focused on Russian authors. Over
    >                 and above
    >                                             competing
    >                                             exegeses of the ideas of
    >         Vygotsky,
    >                                             Puyzerei, etc., it seems
    >         important
    >
    >                          that
    >
    >                        we figure out ways to explore
    >                 different
    >                                             ways of thinking
    about the
    >
    >                          general
    >
    >                        category of "experience" that will be
    >                                             productive of new
    >         empirical and
    >                                             theoretical
    investigation.
    >
    >                                             mike
    >
    >                                             On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
    >         9:42 AM, Beth
    >                                             Ferholt
    >         <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>>>
    >
    >
    >                          wrote:
    >
    >                            Monica and I have just started
    >                 using
    >                                                 the two concepts in
    >
    >                            conjunction,
    >
    >              as
    >
    >                            we write about the relation
    >                 between
    >                                                 play and
    learning and
    >         Dewey's
    >
    >                            ideas
    >
    >                  on
    >
    >                                  the relation between art and
    >                 science
    >                                                 in Art and
    Experience.
    >          I am
    >
    >                            very
    >
    >                      interested in any ref. you
    >                 find as I
    >                                                 have found none
    yet. Can I
    >
    >                            ask why
    >
    >                  you
    >
    >                                  ask now? Beth
    >
    >
    >                                                 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
    >         at 6:09
    >                 PM, mike
    >                                                 cole
    >         <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
    >
    >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>>
    >
    >
    >                            wrote:
    >
    >                          Has anyone written on uses
    >                 of the
    >                                                     term
    perezhivanie
    >         as used
    >                 in the
    >                                                     cultural
    >                                                     historical
    >         tradition and
    >                 Dewey's
    >                                                     concept of
    experience?
    >
    >                                  references?
    >
    >                          mike
    >
    >          __________________________________________
    >                                                     _____
    >                                                     xmca mailing
    list
    >
    >         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
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    >
    >
    >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >                                                 --
    >                                                 Beth Ferholt
    >                                                 Assistant Professor
    >                                                 School of Education
    >                                                 Brooklyn
    College, City
    >                 University of
    >                                                 New York
    >                                                 2900 Bedford Avenue
    >                                                 Brooklyn, NY
    11210-2889
    >
    >                                                 Email:
    >                 bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
    >
    >          <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
    >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
    <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>>
    >
    >                                                 Phone: (718)
    951-5205
    >                                                 Fax: (718) 951-4816
    >
    >
    >
    >         __________________________________________
    >                                             _____
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    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >
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    >
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    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >
    >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >                          __________________________________________
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    >                                         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >
    >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >                __________________________________________
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    >                                     xmca mailing list
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    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >
    >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >                           __________________________________________
    >                         _____
    >                         xmca mailing list
    >                         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >
    >                         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >
    >                     --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >                     *Andy Blunden*
    >                     Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >                 <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >
    >
    >                     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
    >                     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
    >
    >
    >                     __________________________________________
    >                     _____
    >                     xmca mailing list
    >                     xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
    >
    >                     http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >
    >             --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >             *Andy Blunden*
    >             Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >             Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
    >             http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
    >
    >             __________________________________________
    >             _____
    >             xmca mailing list
    >             xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
    >             http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >
    >
    >     --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >     *Andy Blunden*
    >     Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    >     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
    >     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
    >
    >     __________________________________________
    >     _____
    >     xmca mailing list
    >     xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
    >     http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
    >
    >

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *Andy Blunden*
    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
    http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

    __________________________________________
    _____
    xmca mailing list
    xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

    __________________________________________
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    xmca mailing list
    xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca