Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and Language"
vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
and Dilthey......
Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
an interesting exercise!
mike
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
Oh I see!
It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental
human actions/relations which provide the foundation for language,
along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial
position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in
this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
"double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's
barrel in this context.
And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process
verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the
English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction
in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact")
being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in
which James and Dewey were philosophising.
Andy
mike cole wrote:
A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over
significant periods of a human life span.
Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the
environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And
given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process
occurring over
time.
Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain,
so to speak.
mike
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
<ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
Andy
mike cole wrote:
Those are both terrifically useful passages to think with,
Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really
resonate to the
notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first
passage, and
the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for the
latter that
barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way"
/temporality/
is backgrounded.
thanks!
mike
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
<ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
What about this one Larry?
‘Experience’ is what James called a
double-barreled
word. Like
its congeners, life and history, it
includes /what/
men do and
suffer, /what/ they strive for, love,
believe and
endure, and
/how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways
in which
they do and
suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
imagine –
in short,
processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
‘double-barreled’ in
that
it recognizes in its primary integrity no
division
between act
and material, subject and object, but
contains them
both in an
unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
James says
in the
same connection, are single-barreled; they
refer to
products
discriminated by reflection out of primary
experience (1929
PJD:
256-7).
Andy
Larry Purss wrote:
Mike,
On page 12 of the article on Dewey's
notionotion of
experience the theme
of experience AS
"life overcomes and transforms factors of
opposition to
achieve higher
significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the
resullts
not of
mechanical
processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of
tension. The
rhythmic
ALTERNATION
within the live creature BETWEEN unity and
disunity
becomes
CONSCIOUS in
humans. Emotion signifies BREAKS in
experience which
are then
resolved
through reflective action"
I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
conversational
dialogue with
perezhivanie.
Larry
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
<lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
wrote:
Michael, Mike:
One more fragment on the definition of
sentipensante:
Sentipensante pedagogy offers a transformative
vision of
education that
emphasizes the harmonic, complementary
relationship
between the sentir of
intuition and the pensar of intellect and
scholarship;
between teaching and
learning; between formal knowledge and
wisdom; and
between
Western and
non-Western ways of knowing.
Seems to have some family resemblance to
this theme of
experience
Larry
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
<lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
Mike,
Thanks for this.
Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource.
I seem to
download an author
approximately once a month. For $10 you
support them
and get the articles
sent in a PDF format.
Michael , here is a link [in Spanish]
to a youtube
video of Orlando
Fals-Borda discussing his understanding of
experience
from the heart.
If you have any articles in English
which you can
share, this seems to be
exploring experience within "felt
awareness".
Seems to be a fascinating expansion of the
understanding of experience.
Thanks, Michael and Mike
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike cole
<lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
a quick
summary of Dewey on
experience. Note that his ideas
are considered
unusual by the author.
That
Stanford pub seems very useful.
mike
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
Larry Purss
<lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
<mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
wrote:
Michael,
I also found this site for Orlando
Fals Borda.
http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
If it is off topic please ignore.
However, it
is where my curiosity was
called or invited.
Larry
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
Glassman,
Michael <
glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
<mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
<mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
<mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
<mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>
wrote:
Perhaps
another avenue to
explore might be Ortega y
Gasset's
ideas on
experience (which is
probably in
some ways
reflective of Dewey)
which was
appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
in the
concept of vivencia -
which is
very compelling - and became an
important
part of Fals-Borda's
conception
of Participatory Action Research.
This
might then tie back to the
earlier
issue on PAR.
Michael
________________________________________
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<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
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<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
[xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
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<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>] on
behalf
of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>]
Sent: Monday, February 18,
2013
2:28 PM
To: Beth Ferholt
Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
Shotter; Boris
Meshcheryakov; eXtended
Mind,
Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
Alexander Asmolov
Subject: Re: [xmca]
Perezhivanie and
Dewey's concept of experience
Thanks Beth--
I ask, firstly, because there
appear quite
clear overlaps as you and
Monica
have been exploring.
Secondly, we have two
submissions
to MCA
on perezhivanie that are
very
focused on Russian authors. Over
and above
competing
exegeses of the ideas of
Vygotsky,
Puyzerei, etc., it seems
important
that
we figure out ways to explore
different
ways of thinking about the
general
category of "experience" that will be
productive of new
empirical and
theoretical investigation.
mike
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
9:42 AM, Beth
Ferholt
<bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
<mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
<mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
<mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
<mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>>
wrote:
Monica and I have just started
using
the two concepts in
conjunction,
as
we write about the relation
between
play and learning and
Dewey's
ideas
on
the relation between art and
science
in Art and Experience.
I am
very
interested in any ref. you
find as I
have found none yet. Can I
ask why
you
ask now? Beth
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
at 6:09
PM, mike
cole
<lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>
wrote:
Has anyone written on uses
of the
term perezhivanie
as used
in the
cultural
historical
tradition and
Dewey's
concept of experience?
references?
mike
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Brooklyn College, City
University of
New York
2900 Bedford Avenue
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