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Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication

To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 16:06:09 -0500
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I am glad you find the article useful Christine.
I will look more closely at the bildung section myself.
RL

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Christine Schweighart <
schweighartc@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>  Thanks for the pointer to the Reflex Arc writing -  the organic
> argument there is couched in it's scientific times. Biology now has
> has notions of 'structural -coupling', based on nervous system study.
> Though what draws attention in existing states through  regulation of
> energy cycles, in relation to embodiment of ideal in material , hasn't
> been as clearly worked through. Intricacies of patterns in flux of
> enzymes and such (as 'organ' in cause effect with nervous system
> activity). Research in regulatory enzyme function seems to suffer from
> a  fragmentation of science practices of Biological Science  and  from
>  dis-jointed relation of  these practices to Philosophy -  as well as
> funding weighting. Solving problems of the moment such as obesity and
> heart disease rather than say 'mental health' or a good life, often
> taking as primary neuronal networks more or less alone as complexities
> of enzyme pathways are not yet understood.
>
> I found thisessay  in my j.j. McDermott's two Volumes in one - which I
> hadn't yet approached...in the 'early works'.
>  yet the book critique mentioned:
>
> "Dewey’s notion of pure personality stands out as the single
> theoretical device that warrants the validity of the process of
> ideali-zation of sensations or, in other words, the process of
> embodiment of the ideal in material. If this reading is correct, an
> even stronger continuity in Dewey’s philosophical development can be
> detected."
>
> And I'm afraid I couldn't read it any further as my  ready to hand
> book today doesn't have a nice index with 'pure personality' pxx  ,
> though I hope that I might find my way towards considering this .
> Thank you for this article, it is of interest to me especially from
> the mapping of 'bildung'  p300 and onwards - as I am thinking about
> the nature of the influence of British Empircism in other reading I'm
> in the midst of.
>  Christine.
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for your comments Greg,
> > Some people might trifle over the value of intellectual genealogy
> > but I think it is critically important to promote inter-generationality
> > in  scholarship by accurately connecting the past to our own present and
> > future
> > work as well as our students.
> > You might find the attached article useful and perhaps inspiring in this
> > regard.
> > *Robert*
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Greg Thompson <
> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> I was thinking the same thing and went back to check the date of the
> Reflex
> >> Arc since I thought it was a later piece and not in Dewey's "Hegel
> years"
> >> (as described by these authors), and thus evidence of Hegelian influence
> >> showing through in Dewey's later years. But it turns out it was
> published
> >> in 1896. That would put it squarely in the early part of Dewey's Hegel
> >> years (or at least in the early part of his transition). But there is
> still
> >> plenty else in Dewey's later work that suggests Hegelian (and Marxian)
> >> influences.
> >>
> >> Many thanks to Robert for making these connections.
> >>
> >> And Robert, I agree, dialectical thinking sounds like Vygotsky too!
> >>
> >> -greg
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 2:26 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Very interesting, Robert. Thanks. Seems like the following paragraph
> >> should
> >> > be linked directly to Dewey's paper on the reflex arc in addition to
> >> > pointing to the antiquity of the on-again, off-again discussion of
> >> > cognition and emotion on xmca:
> >> >
> >> > *Therefore, Hegel argues that, to use Good’s incisive *
> >> > *expression, “cause and effect are more fruitfully seen as reciprocal
> >> > moments within an organic process rather than linear relations” (75).
> >> Dewey
> >> > enthusiastically endorses the Hegelian theory of causation, and puts
> it
> >> at
> >> > the basis of his own conception of reality, life, and *
> >> > *reason. So, for instance, Dewey writes: “each member of the animal
> body
> >> is
> >> > cause and effect of every other: each organ is at once means and ends
> of
> >> > every other” (115). Moreover, the organicist theory of causation is
> also
> >> > the key to understanding Dewey’s theory of emotion and his concomitant
> >> > critique of mind/body dualism*.
> >> >
> >> > mike
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Robert Lake <
> >> boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
> >> > >wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > You seem to be an inveterate lurker, Robert. It would be good to
> hear
> >> > > your
> >> > > > voice somewhat more frequently in the discussions on xmca.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Andy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi Andy,
> >> > > I will try to honor your requests. I am presently finishing 3 book
> >> > projects
> >> > > for which I been a co-editor and contributor and teaching a full
> load
> >> > :-).
> >> > >
> >> > > Btw, speaking of connections between Dewey and Hegel,  has anyone
> had a
> >> > > look at the book that is reviewed  here in this link?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://lnx.journalofpragmatism.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shook-good-deweys-philosophy-of-spirit.pdf
> >> > >
> >> > > Robert Lake
> >> > >
> >> > > Robert
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Robert Lake wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> Hi and thanks for asking
> >> > > >> RL
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> For Dewey, *Mind is primarily a verb *(Dewey, 1934, p. 274).
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Dewey, J. (1934). *Art as experience*. New York: Capricorn.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Of course this notion comes straight out of Hegel who wrote that
> >> >  "mind
> >> > > is
> >> > > >> only what it does, and its act is to make itself the object of
> its
> >> > > >> own consciousness" .*Philosophy of Right*,
> >> > > >> §<http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
> >> > > >> pr/prstate.htm#PR343<
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/pr/prstate.htm#PR343
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>  343, 216.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:36 PM, vwilk <
> vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>> If the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human (intellectual)
> >> life
> >> > > >>> relevant to concepts.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> For all the stars of present-day continental philosophy is:
> >> > > >>> pidgeon-holing.
> >> > > >>> and the concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity
> Theory,
> >> > > Thomas
> >> > > >>> Kuhn
> >> > > >>> and Andy is: problem-solving.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> What is the concrete path of development that goes through
> Dewey?
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> (2012/11/14 10:05), Robert Lake wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>> And don't forget Dewey :-)
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Andy Blunden <
> ablunden@mira.net>
> >> > > >>>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>  Larry, picking up on a theme introduced by Mike earlier - we
> have
> >> > to
> >> > > >>>> ask:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> what is the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human
> >> > (intellectual)
> >> > > >>>>> life?
> >> > > >>>>> I know of only two answers to this question, relevant to
> >> concepts.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> The abstract answer given by mediavel logic, Linnaeus, the
> >> > > "psychology
> >> > > >>>>> of
> >> > > >>>>> concepts," all the stars of present-day continental philosophy
> >> is:
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>     pidgeon-holing.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory,
> >> > Thomas
> >> > > >>>>> Kuhn
> >> > > >>>>> and me is:
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>     problem-solving.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> This is what creates a line of development, Larry.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Andy
> >> > > >>>>> --
> >> > > >>>>>
> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
> >> > > >>>>> --**--**
> >> > > >>>>> ------------
> >> > > >>>>> *Andy Blunden*
> >> > > >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >> > > >>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> >> > > >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/******AndyBlunden<
> >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/****AndyBlunden>
> >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden>
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> >> > > http://academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/AndyBlunden<
> >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>>         Larry Purss wrote:
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>  Andy
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>> your comment:
> >> > > >>>>>> "Ideal typical path of development" *points to* distinct
> >> settings
> >> > > >>>>>> (e.g.
> >> > > >>>>>> natural science, everyday life at home, school, etc.) which
> is
> >> > > indeed
> >> > > >>>>>> close
> >> > > >>>>>> to the idea of "genre," but "ideal typical path of
> development"
> >> is
> >> > > >>>>>> after
> >> > > >>>>>> all about *paths of development*, ideal ones at that, not
> >> > settings,
> >> > > >>>>>> projects, theories, domains, social groups, frames, or
> anything
> >> > > else.
> >> > > >>>>>> :)
> >> > > >>>>>>   Andy, if the focus remains on *typical paths of
> development*
> >> OF
> >> > > >>>>>> genres,
> >> > > >>>>>> OF distinct settings OF the existential life world, is it
> >> possible
> >> > > to
> >> > > >>>>>> have
> >> > > >>>>>> a conversation within the multi-verse of *romantic science*
> >> > > >>>>>> As I understand the focus on *typical* is *scientific*  the
> >> paths
> >> > of
> >> > > >>>>>> development may be romantic and implicate effective history.
> >> > > >>>>>>   I am circling around your invitation to have conversations
> >> that
> >> > > are
> >> > > >>>>>> interdiciplinary. Simon Critchley, exploring the development
> of
> >> > > >>>>>> Continental
> >> > > >>>>>> Philosophy wrote about Heidegger's idea of
> >> > > >>>>>>    *an existential CONCEPTION of science*  Critchley
> commented,
> >> > > >>>>>>   "This would show how the practices of the natural sciences
> >> arise
> >> > > out
> >> > > >>>>>> of
> >> > > >>>>>> life-world practices, and that the life-world practices are
> not
> >> > > simply
> >> > > >>>>>> reducible to natural scientific explanation"
> >> > > >>>>>>   Andy, your specific project to develop awareness of the
> >> *typical
> >> > > >>>>>> paths*
> >> > > >>>>>> of develop of concept use and transformation through time is
> >> > >  emerging
> >> > > >>>>>> within a particular  tradition or genre of discourse [within
> >> > > effective
> >> > > >>>>>> history].  I am playfully inquiring if it may be  possible to
> >> > *play*
> >> > > >>>>>> [a
> >> > > >>>>>> word you would not use but points to a hermeneutical genre]
> on a
> >> > > >>>>>> larger
> >> > > >>>>>> *field of play*  that *hears* and acknowledges your voice.
> >> > > >>>>>>   I will bring the discussion back to the paper under
> discussion
> >> > and
> >> > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > >>>>>> fuzzy boundaries between spontaneous and scientific
> >> > [systematically
> >> > > >>>>>> 'true'
> >> > > >>>>>> organized] concepts.  Andy the path of development FROM
> >> > spontaneous
> >> > > TO
> >> > > >>>>>> scientific concepts seems to have deen articulated within a
> >> genre.
> >> > > >>>>>> However,
> >> > > >>>>>> this is not a dis-interested scientific development. Mike
> >> pointed
> >> > to
> >> > > >>>>>> developmental praxis as centrally concerning *social goods,
> >> > > including
> >> > > >>>>>> moral
> >> > > >>>>>> goods*.
> >> > > >>>>>>   Within our developing understanding of  ideal paths of
> concept
> >> > > >>>>>> formation
> >> > > >>>>>> how is this emerging understanding circling back to exploring
> >> how
> >> > > our
> >> > > >>>>>> *hearing* gives *voice* to the other*?
> >> > > >>>>>> {Which I suggest is one way to view the development of
> >> psychology
> >> > > as a
> >> > > >>>>>> project within a shared moral compass}
> >> > > >>>>>>   Larry
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>  ______________________________******____________
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> _____
> >> > > >>>>> xmca mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
> >> > > >>>>> <http://dss.**ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/**xmca<
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/**mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://**
> >> > > >>>>> dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/**xmca<
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>> ______________________________****____________
> >> > > >>> _____
> >> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> >> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
> >> > > >>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >> > > >>> >
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >> > > > ------------
> >> > > > *Andy Blunden*
> >> > > > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >> > > > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> >> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > *Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> >> > > *Associate Professor
> >> > > Social Foundations of Education
> >> > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> >> > > Georgia Southern University
> >> > > P. O. Box 8144
> >> > > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> >> > > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> >> > > Statesboro, GA  30460
> >> > >
> >> > >  *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is
> its
> >> > > midwife.*
> >> > > *-*John Dewey.
> >> > > __________________________________________
> >> > > _____
> >> > > xmca mailing list
> >> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> > >
> >> > __________________________________________
> >> > _____
> >> > xmca mailing list
> >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >> Visiting Assistant Professor
> >> Department of Anthropology
> >> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >> Brigham Young University
> >> Provo, UT 84602
> >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >> __________________________________________
> >> _____
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> > *Associate Professor
> > Social Foundations of Education
> > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> > Georgia Southern University
> > P. O. Box 8144
> > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > Statesboro, GA  30460
> >
> >  *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> > midwife.*
> > *-*John Dewey.
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>



-- 
*Robert Lake  Ed.D.
*Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
P. O. Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-0355
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460

 *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
midwife.*
*-*John Dewey.
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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Follow-Ups:
- Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

References:
- [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
- Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
- Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
  - From: Christine Schweighart <schweighartc@gmail.com>

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