Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] A Failure of Communication

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Mike
Here is a link to the entire journal article referred to in Kathleen
Slaney's youtube presentation and the responses to her presentation.


http://www.journaltocs.hw.ac.uk/api/jass/zotero.php?rfr_id=info:sid/journaltocs.ac.uk:suncat&rft.issn=1068-8471&maximumRecords=100&rft_volume=&rft_issue=&range=&select=&query_issn=Submit+Query

The entire copy of this months journal of "Theoretical and Philosophical
Psychology" was dedicated to Slaney and Racine's discusion of concepts and
the multiple commentaries back anf forth.

Slaney and Racine also have a new book being printed which is focusing on a
Wittgensteinian approach to concepts.

I hope this additional information  is not moving away from the core of the
discussion of Charles paper. However, if someone wanted to explore the
complexity of this topic it does offer some orientation to the topic.

Larry

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike
>
> Personally I enjoyed the clarity of her presentation.
> I do not have the depth of background understanding required to navigate
> the similarities and differences between the competing theories of concepts.
>
> Kathleen's style of presentation and how she in a one hour presentation
> situated different models of concepts I found helpful and informative.
>
> Andy, Kathleen's ability to put in question the classical notions of
> concepts and then introduce her model which privleges the linguistic and
> Wittgenstein's insights may be challenged and *seen through* as not
> adequate for a deeper understanding of concepts. However it contributed to
> my education and helps me become more familiar with the multiple *genres*
> which are competing for legitimacy within psychology as a discipline. Andy,
> your project to promote a model of concepts as an *ideal type of
> developmental model* may question Kathleen's conclusions but she left room
> for this form of questioning.
>
> Mike, watching Kathleen's presentation furthers my understanding of Andy's
> project, and Charles' project.  There may be others on this chat site who
> appreciated the way Kathleen oriented  her listeners to the complexities of
> this topic and contributed to our shared explorations of the concept of
> concepts.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:21 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Guess we got it wrong, Larry. Not so interesting after all.
>> mike
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Even then, she garbles the definitions of the supposedly only theories
>> of
>> > concepts known to humankind.
>> > Andy
>> >
>> > mike cole wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good lecture for a cog sci over view, Larry. I wonder what Roth and
>> others
>> >> had to say as responses. Could not find.
>> >> mike
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Andy Charles, and others
>> >>> Here is an interesting lecture on the concept of concepts which may be
>> >>> helpful for this chat.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=1VvMEnnReK4<
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VvMEnnReK4>
>> >>>
>> >>> It is an elaboration of an article on this topic.
>> >>>
>> >>> Larry
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Charles Bazerman <
>> >>> bazerman@eduhttp://www.**youtube.com/watch?v=**
>> >>> 1VvMEnnReK4cation.ucsb.edu<
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VvMEnnReK4cation.ucsb.edu>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>       Dewey's "The Reflex Arc Concept in Psychology" (1896) is not
>> far
>> >>>> from
>> >>>> Vygotsky's 1925 talk on the crisis in Psychology--giving them both
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> similar
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> starting points.
>> >>>> Chuck
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
>> >>>> Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:20 am
>> >>>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] A Failure of Communication
>> >>>> To: vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <
>> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi and thanks for asking
>> >>>>> RL
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For Dewey, *Mind is primarily a verb *(Dewey, 1934, p. 274).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dewey, J. (1934). *Art as experience*. New York: Capricorn.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Of course this notion comes straight out of Hegel who wrote that
>> >>>>> "mind is
>> >>>>> only what it does, and its act is to make itself the object of its
>> >>>>> own consciousness" .*Philosophy of Right*,
>> >>>>> §<
>> >>>>>  343, 216.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:36 PM, vwilk <vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> If the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human (intellectual)
>> life
>> >>>>>> relevant to concepts.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> For all the stars of present-day continental philosophy is:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> pidgeon-holing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> and the concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Thomas
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Kuhn
>> >>>>>> and Andy is: problem-solving.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the concrete path of development that goes through Dewey?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> (2012/11/14 10:05), Robert Lake wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> And don't forget Dewey :-)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  Larry, picking up on a theme introduced by Mike earlier - we have
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> to ask:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> what is the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (intellectual)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  life?
>> >>>>>>>> I know of only two answers to this question, relevant to
>> concepts.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The abstract answer given by mediavel logic, Linnaeus, the
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "psychology of
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> concepts," all the stars of present-day continental philosophy is:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>     pidgeon-holing.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thomas
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  Kuhn
>> >>>>>>>> and me is:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>     problem-solving.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> This is what creates a line of development, Larry.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Andy
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>> >>> --**--**
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  ------------
>> >>>>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>> >>>>>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> >>>>>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> <
>> >>>>>>>>               Larry Purss wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>  Andy
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> your comment:
>> >>>>>>>>> "Ideal typical path of development" *points to* distinct
>> settings
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> (e.g.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  natural science, everyday life at home, school, etc.) which is
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> indeed
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  close
>> >>>>>>>>> to the idea of "genre," but "ideal typical path of development"
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> is after
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  all about *paths of development*, ideal ones at that, not
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> settings,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  projects, theories, domains, social groups, frames, or anything
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> else. :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Andy, if the focus remains on *typical paths of development* OF
>> >>>>>>>>> genres,
>> >>>>>>>>> OF distinct settings OF the existential life world, is it
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> possible to
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  have
>> >>>>>>>>> a conversation within the multi-verse of *romantic science*
>> >>>>>>>>> As I understand the focus on *typical* is *scientific*  the
>> paths
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  development may be romantic and implicate effective history.
>> >>>>>>>>>   I am circling around your invitation to have conversations
>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  interdiciplinary. Simon Critchley, exploring the development of
>> >>>>>>>>> Continental
>> >>>>>>>>> Philosophy wrote about Heidegger's idea of
>> >>>>>>>>>    *an existential CONCEPTION of science*  Critchley commented,
>> >>>>>>>>>   "This would show how the practices of the natural sciences
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> arise out
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  of
>> >>>>>>>>> life-world practices, and that the life-world practices are not
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> simply
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  reducible to natural scientific explanation"
>> >>>>>>>>>   Andy, your specific project to develop awareness of the
>> *typical
>> >>>>>>>>> paths*
>> >>>>>>>>> of develop of concept use and transformation through time is
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>  emerging
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  within a particular  tradition or genre of discourse [within
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> effective
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  history].  I am playfully inquiring if it may be  possible to
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> *play* [a
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  word you would not use but points to a hermeneutical genre] on a
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> larger
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  *field of play*  that *hears* and acknowledges your voice.
>> >>>>>>>>>   I will bring the discussion back to the paper under discussion
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> and the
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  fuzzy boundaries between spontaneous and scientific
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> [systematically
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>  'true'
>> >>>>>>>>> organized] concepts.  Andy the path of development FROM
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> spontaneous TO
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  scientific concepts seems to have deen articulated within a genre.
>> >>>>>>>>> However,
>> >>>>>>>>> this is not a dis-interested scientific development. Mike
>> pointed
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  developmental praxis as centrally concerning *social goods,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> including
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>  moral
>> >>>>>>>>> goods*.
>> >>>>>>>>>   Within our developing understanding of  ideal paths of concept
>> >>>>>>>>> formation
>> >>>>>>>>> how is this emerging understanding circling back to exploring
>> how
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> our
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  *hearing* gives *voice* to the other*?
>> >>>>>>>>> {Which I suggest is one way to view the development of
>> psychology
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> as a
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>  project within a shared moral compass}
>> >>>>>>>>>   Larry
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>  ______________________________******____________
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _____
>> >>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> <
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>> >>>>>> _____
>> >>>>>> xmca mailing list
>> >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> *Robert Lake  Ed.D.
>> >>>>> *Associate Professor
>> >>>>> Social Foundations of Education
>> >>>>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
>> >>>>> Georgia Southern University
>> >>>>> P. O. Box 8144
>> >>>>> Phone: (912) 478-0355
>> >>>>> Fax: (912) 478-5382
>> >>>>> Statesboro, GA  30460
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is
>> its
>> >>>>> midwife.*
>> >>>>> *-*John Dewey.
>> >>>>> ______________________________**____________
>> >>>>> _____
>> >>>>> xmca mailing list
>> >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________**____________
>> >>>> _____
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>> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> ______________________________**____________
>> >>> _____
>> >>> xmca mailing list
>> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> ______________________________**____________
>> >> _____
>> >> xmca mailing list
>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> > ------------
>> > *Andy Blunden*
>> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>> >
>> > ______________________________**____________
>> > _____
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
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>>
>
>
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