Thanks for the extra connections, Peg. I'll track them down and
perhaps we can return to Sayeki's work if people find it useful.
mike
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Peg Griffin <peg.griffin@att.net
<mailto:peg.griffin@att.net>> wrote:
There are some recent studies of PM (physical manipulation) and CM
(computer manipulation) and IM (imaginary manipulation) that might
be interesting to consider here, Mike and Andy ( more the studies
themselves than the framework/background that motivate them.)
Here's the general issue and some references:
Kids who read sometimes don't comprehend.
Telling them to visualize or imagine (IM) as a comprehension
strategy is like telling a sad person to be happy. They don't
really see what it means to go about that.
But, if they learn to do PM or CM while reading some passages and
then are advised to do the same but without the physical objects
or the interactive computer objects (so it is IM), they can then
do the IM and even do it on new passages they never did any PM or
CM on. It works on narrative and expository passages.
Glenberg, A.M., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu, X. (2011) Improving early
reading comprehension using embodied CAI. Instructional Sciences,
39(1), 27–39.
Glenberg, A.M., Willford, J., Gibson, B., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu,
X. (2011). Improving reading to improve math. Scientific Studies
of Reading. DOI: 10.1080/10888438.2011.564245
Glenberg, A.M., Sato, M. & Cattaneo, L. (2011). Use-induced
motor plasticity affects the processing of abstract and concrete
language. Current Biology, 18(7), R290-291
It's reminiscent of our marshmallow simulations of those
genetically primary Pond problems, huh, Mike?
And here is one older piece along the same lines that might be
interesting to look at – the abstract starts this way: “This
article explores the nature of the conceptual knowledge retrieved
when people use words to think about objects. Suppose that
conceptual knowledge is used to simulate and guide action in the
world.”
Borghi, A. M., Glenberg, A. M. &. Kaschak, M. P. (2004). Putting
words in perspective. Memory and Cognition. 32 (6), 863-873Peg
--- On Wed, 8/15/12, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
Subject: Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"
To: lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 9:21 PM
As I see it Mike, the reason that a set-up which facilitates the
subject imaginatively putting themselves into the object, leads to
quicker solution of the problem because it mobilises the highly
developed sense we have of our own body. Although wrong about much
else, I think Lakoff was right about the central place of spatial
and other visceral metaphors lying at the root of our ability to
understand things, including concept formation and the formation
of language. Likewise, I think the whole range of social feelings
we have - shame, fear of disapproval, desire for recognition,
respect for norms of behaviour, etc., as well as knowledge of the
various objects which populate our social world, key in our
understanding of concepts which have an essentially social
existence. Just as my feet and shoulders twitch when I watch a
tennis match, I think similar but deeper processes are going on
when I recognise or think about things which are conceptualised in a
particular way in the social environment I am in. If this is the
kind of thing you have in mind, then I believe I understand you.
The same considerations also engage the concepts of abstract and
concrete, but you seemed to be hinting at a more immediate
connection which at the moment is just escaping me.
Perhaps you could explain?
Andy
mike cole wrote:
Thanks for posting the link to the paper, Andy.
I believe that a starting point is to ask the following question(s):
1. What is it that accounts for the increase in time to carry out
a mental rotation for the plain
conglomeration of blocks?
2. Whatever the process is, why is it that the amount of rotation
is irrelevant if the figure has
a schematic face/head on it in a place where it appears person-like?
Maybe all the concrete is between my ears.
mike
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap81v3n2.PDF p.16
Mike, I also, at first had the same problem with motorscooter
indicator, and I used a different but similar tactic to overcome
it. Also, as a civil engineer I learnt that it was essential to
imagine yourself as the building in order to nknow where the
stresses would be and effectively design it, and most difficult
problems, up to the point of calculations could be solved this way.
But ... :) ... I can't see what this has to do with abstract and
concrete. Can you explain?
Andy
mike cole wrote:
A wonderful paper by Yutaka Sayeki (with two key figures reversed,
but it is obvious where the mistake was made when you read it) has
an example of what I take to be almost a "measure" of rising to
the concrete (see also Davydov's ideas on the topic).
Its part of a special issue of the newsletter. Accessible to
anyone at lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu> <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
*
Volume 3, Number 2 April 1981
*
AZUMA, Hiroshi: /A Note on Cross-Cultural Study/
INAGAKI, Kayoko: /Facilitation of Knowledge Integration through /
/Classroom Discussion/
KASHIWAGI, Keiko: /Note on the Socialization Processes in Japan/
HATANO, Giyoo, KUHARA, Keiko, and AKIYAMA, Michael: /Kanji Help /
/Readers of Japanese Infer the Meaning of Unfamiliar Words/
SAITO, Hirofumi/: Toward Comparative Studies in Reading Kanji and /
/Kana/
SAYEKI, Yutaka: /"Body Analogy" and the Cognition of Rotated Figures/
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Huw Lloyd
<huw.softdesigns@gmail.com <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
<mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
<mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>>> wrote:
On 15 August 2012 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> Well, these issues are not going to be solved in 5 minutes, Huw.
Analog
> and digital belong to a completely different frame than the
concepts of
> abstract/concrete and general/universal which I think Greg asked
about
> initially.
>
Analog was an elaboration. This point is not necessary to resolve
"universal" in the Lenin quote.
Huw
>
> Let me be brief then. Ilyenkov famously makes the point that
(exchange)
> value is an ideal, but it is also real. The market implements a
process of
> abstracting the value of commodities but it is the very
concreteness of the
> market which makes that process possible.
Democracy is an ideal which really motivates millions of
people and
> underpins constitutional governments.
>
> Universal suffrage allows that insane people, criminals and
children do
> not vote. And what is more, when the President is elected, only
the votes
> of 51% count. (There are of course plenty of "Ah, but ..."s
about this, but
> this is what is meant by the difference between the general
and the
> universal.)
>
> http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
>
sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b<http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b>
>
> Andy
>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
--
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca