Re: [xmca] empirical evidence (Vygotskian 1960s lobby @ Harvard, broader--Boston area)

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

If you add Hans Lukas Teuber it might be relevant. And of course, Salvador
Luria. Interesting.
A lobby. Who paid the lobbiest do you think?
:-)
mike

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Yes Mike, the  Vygotskian lobby at Harvard is not what is often talked
> about, and is certainly a part of the history
> of informal personal networks, like, e.g. the Vygotsky Circle.
>
> The beauty of informal personal networks in science is in the fact that --
> unlike scientific "schools" -- they really exist
> and operate in the real world, although not so visible as other "visible
> colleges". Also, note, such informal networks do not
> have to include the members formally affiliated with an institution and
> not necessarily representing one and the same field of knowledge
> and/or social practice. As to Harvard, I have not done a really deep
> research on that -- just a brief superficial study for my
> current writing -- therefore, only the tip of the iceberg has been
> detected.
>
> The circle of Vygotsky-Luria admirers in Harvard as of late 1950s was
> fairly limited in numbers, which was compensated with the relative
> weight of these individuals, most prominent and highly influential in
> their respective fields. Also, note: perhaps it is more precise to talk
> about
> Bostonian lobby, which includes MIT and the suburbia like Worcester,
> rather than just Harvard only. Which makes us somewhat reformulate
> the topic as "Boston area as the stronghold of the Vtygotskians in 1950s,
> 1960s, and 1970s). Anyway, the list of the individuals on the very top
> includes:
>
> 1. Roman Jakobson, linguist, Harvard, MIT
>
> 2. Jerome Bruner, cognitivist, Harvard, etc.
>
> 3. Sheldon H. "Shep" White, developmental psychologist, of Harvard from
> 1965 (many thanks to Vera for this important information!)
>
> 3. Norman Geschwind, neurologist, Harvard I guess (see Toulmin, The Mozart
> of Psychology, 1978)
>
> According to Valsiner's 1988 Developmental Psychology in the Soviet Union,
> back in the 1960s there were quite a few references to
> semi-Vygotsky's semi-Thinking and Speech that was published in 1962 as
> Thought and Language at MIT Press. So, a thorough analysis of these
> references would help us reveal the "Vygotskian network" in North America
> in 1960s, which certainly constitutes a subsection of those authors who
> referred to Vygotsky back then.
>
> Anyway, these and several others constituted the group of Vygotsky's
> admirers in the United States that Bruner mentioned in his 1967 paper that
> was
> published as an editorial in the journal Soviet Psychology, in which he
> lamented that although the book had been published already five years
> before,
> no "Vygotsky boom" occurred. Also, these individuals stood behind quite a
> few of Vygotsky's publications in English in 1960s. Part of this story
> was revealed by Bruner himself in his interview with Mike on the DVD to
> the last edition of Luria's autobiography. By the way, it is worth to
> transcribe it
> and publish, as a written text. I even know where we could publish it :)
>
> AY
>
> P.S. As to Kohlberg and Flavell, neither was a Vygotskian in any sense,
> yet it is interesting to see how, indirectly, most likely through
> Piaget's involvement with Jakobson-Luria-Bruner-Hanfmann-Vakar translation
> and publication project of 1962 the "Vygotskianism" made to
> into other, allied fields and intellectual clans in the West.
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> *To:* Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 12:15:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [xmca] empirical evidence (Kohlberg et al., 1968 testing
> Vygotsky)
>
> Anton-- This is the first i have ever heard about a vygotskian lobby at
> harvard.
> Who were they? Bruner wrote the intro to the first edition of Thought and
> Language, but a lobby?
> Kohlberg was basically a Piagetian to my limited knowledge.
> So its news to me. What does it portend?
> mike
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Interested, indeed.
>
>
> Most curious, were this book of 1950s, more likely 1960s, but please find
> the reference, that would help.
>
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Wagner Luiz Schmit <wagner.schmit@gmail.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 9:49:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] empirical evidence (Kohlberg et al., 1968 testing
> Vygotsky)
>
> It is late here so maybe my memory is not 100%... But last year I remenber
> reading a book from David Ausubel were while criticizing Piaget he cites
> Vygotsky, or that is what I recall, and the book first edition was on the
> 50's or 60's... I can try to find this if anyone is interested..
>
> Wagner Luiz Schmit
> Brazil
>
> 2012/6/24 Michael Glassman <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu>
>
> > I am thinking Kohlberg got his knowledge of Vygotsky through Piaget.
> >  Didn't Piaget write his response to Vygotsky in 1962?  I don't know why
> > but that sticks in my mind.  Kohlberg was sending at least some of his
> > students to Geneva during that period.  Possibly one or more of those
> > people brought Vygotsky and Thought and Language back.  I remember
> talking
> > some years back with somebody who was in Geneva during the period who
> said
> > Piaget kept saying Vygotsky misunderstood him.  Who knows, but it seems
> > plausible.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: Sun 6/24/2012 9:16 PM
> > To: Martin Packer; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] empirical evidence (Kohlberg et al., 1968 testing
> > Vygotsky)
> >
> >
> >
> > True and thanks for a copy, but there is no evidence (as of now) whether
> > Flavell new and was utilizing any of Vygotsky in his paper of 1966, -- is
> > there?
> >
> >
> > ... But, frankly, who cares, after all :)
> >
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
> > To: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> >  Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 8:43:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] empirical evidence (Kohlberg et al., 1968 testing
> > Vygotsky)
> >
> > But Flavell had presented a paper on the same topic 4 years earlier, and
> > was credited in a footnote.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> >
> > > For Vygotsky, Kohlberg, of Harvard, certainly would not need mediation
> > of Flavell: the book had come out in 1962, and was orchestrated by the
> > bunch of guys at Harvard,
> > > which clearly was a stronghold of Vygotsky's admirers back then, i.e.
> in
> > 1960s and 1970s.
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca