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Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
Thank you David, for your explanation.
Carol
On 7 March 2011 01:43, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Carol:
>
> A year ago there was a rather uncomfortable exchange about the "Teaching
> About the Emotions" between Achilles and Andy and Dot Robbins (see 24 March
> 2010). I gather it's not legal to circulate this material on the Net.
>
> But I've been reading it and I'm very happy to circulate my notes. They're
> a bit LONG (67 pages) but there's a kind of "executive summary" at the
> beginning, and then there's a section summary at the beginning of each
> section. Cute pictures too!
>
> (You will see that Saint Teresa of Avila really does put in an appearance
> and plays a not insignifcant role in Vygotsky's argument about why emotions
> can't be reduced to sensations.)
>
> Actually, Carol, my Russian is probably no better than yours, and certainly
> not as good as Achilles or Mike. What I do is just take the Russian and
> Babelfish it and then go over it with the help of a translation from French
> or Italian (the English is worthless for reasons I will get to) or a
> friendly Russian speaking teacher.
>
> The weird thing is that sometimes when I do that I get something
> suspiciously close to the "translation" in Volume Six! So I think that some
> of the translators in the Collected Works project were really just doing the
> same thing, only without much understanding. And that accounts for the poor
> quality of the translations.
>
> And that's why we really have to start over. But you will find that once
> you learn Cyrllic that a lot of familiar words start jumping out at you, and
> then you can just ignore the Byzantine grammar and do a kind of very rough
> and ready lexical translation.
>
> In a funny way, that's what this manuscript (and also Psych of Art, and
> even Martin's beloved "Crisis") is about. There's the VERY atomistic
> "explanatory" (or "from below") account of psychology offered by physiology.
> And then there's this VERY "descriptivist" (or "from above") account of
> psychology offered by the humanities.
>
> The machine translation is "from below". My notes are "from above". And you
> and me and Vygotsky are the mere mortals stuck in the middle.
>
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 1:29 AM
>
>
> David
> I don't think this is fair to the rest of us mere mortals. Why not attempt
> a fair translation for us if you can read the Russian, or even just the
> implications.
> Carol
>
> 2011/3/6 David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vygotsky takes the idea from Dilthey and Scheler. But he certainly
> approves
> > of it.
> >
> > See Chapter 19 of the Teaching About the Emotions:
> Historical-Psychological
> > Studies, in Volume Six of the Collected Works, especially paragraph 6 and
> > paragraph 20.
> >
> > The translation is pretty awful, so here's the Russian.
> >
> >
> > <<Единообразие, составляющее главный предмет психологии нашего века,
> > относится к формулам внутреннего процесса. Могучая по содержанию
> > действительность душевной жизни выходит за пределы этой психологии. В
> > творениях поэтов, в размышлениях о жизни, высказанных великими
> писателями,
> > как Сенека, Марк Аврелий, Блаженный Августин, Макиавелли, Монтень,
> Паскаль,
> > заключено такое понимание человека во всей его действительности, что
> всякая
> > объяснительная психология остается далеко позади>> (там же, с. 18).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > В жизни чувств описательная психология находит самый глубокий и живой
> > объект. <<Тут мы видим перед собой подлинный центр душевной жизни. Поэзия
> > всех времен находит здесь свои объекты. Интересы человечества постоянно
> > обращены в сторону жизни чувств. Счастье и несчастье человеческого
> > существования находятся в зависимости от нее, поэтому-то психология XVII
> в.,
> > глубокомысленно направившая свое внимание на содержание душевной жизни, и
> > сосредоточилась на учении о чувственных состояниях - ибо это и были ее
> > аффекты>> (В. Дильтей,
> > 1924, с. 56).
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Seoul National University of Education
> >
> > --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu>
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 5:33 PM
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, David Kellogg wrote:
> >
> > > Vygotsky does say that the real purpose of descriptive psychology is to
> > provide a scientific road down the same paths blazed by poets, painters,
> > playwrights and novelists. But he should have added at least one
> sculptor!
> >
> > Keen idea!
> >
> > Can someone share the citation wherre I could find that statement by
> > Vygotsky?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
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>
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