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Re: [xmca] zpd zbr zedpd and zoped



Thanks much, Andy. These essays on Vygotsky and Gestalt, and on the necessarily multidisciplinary study of activity, are both valuable literature surveys and discussions of essential ideas in CHAT. I'll be giving both writings a close look.

- Steve




On Jan 6, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:

APologies! The one which got published in "Outlines" is not the one on Urphaenomen. That one is awaiting publication in "Theory & Psychology." But I have it here:

http://home.mira.net/~andy/works/gestalt.htm

Andy

Andy Blunden wrote:
http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.dk/index.php/outlines/article/viewFile/2119/1877

mike cole wrote:
Andy, isnt your -- Isn't your Outlines essay somewhere accessible? That would help those who share Steve's uncertainties re Urphaenomen and Vygotsky.
mike

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net >> wrote:

   Ha ha! That's a nice usage, Carol!
I have no idea how long this adoption of Ur- into English has been
   going on, but it may be wider than I thought.

   Andy


   Carol Macdonald wrote:

       When one of my colleagues discovered some rampant plagiarism
       in students'
       essays, he called the core, which was common to them all, the
       Ur-essay.
       Carol

       On 6 January 2011 18:23, Steve Gabosch <stevegabosch@me.com
       <mailto:stevegabosch@me.com>> wrote:

Yes, very helpful, Andy. Interesting neologism, "Urunit."
            Your
           explanation gives me an intuitive sense, a place to start
           - and some more
           questions.

           Google translates 'Urphaenomen' as 'primary phenomenon'
           while Babel
           translates it as 'elemental phenomenon'.  One translation
           could be seen as
           more of a time concept, and the other, spatial, or as you
           suggest, cellular.

           A little more googling finds 'Ur-' as possibly meaning a
           number of closely
           related concepts, both in terms of 'essential units', and
           also in terms of
           'genesis'.  A list of English substitutes for the German
           'Ur-' includes the
           ones you mention, original and prototypical, and a few
           others: primary,
elemental, ancient, fore-, primal, greatgrand-, primitive,
           primeval, proto-,
           and archetypal, in a quick search.

           These kinds of meanings makes this term especially
           interesting to use in
           the dialectical senses you and Mike are giving it.  The
           mixture of the
simultaneous senses of time and space gives the impression
           the word has had
a contradictory evolution. Ur was also an ancient city in
           Mesopotamia, one
           of the oldest, became a world famous archeological dig,
           and is likely the
birthplace of Abraham. A lot seems to be packed into that
           two-letter German
           prefix and its history!

           Did Marx, Engels or Hegel use the prefix 'Ur-' in a
           significant way?

           And who (if anyone knows) introduced terms such as "ur
           characteristic" and
           "ur model" into English?  What meanings are generally
           being given to these
           terms?

           - Steve




           On Jan 6, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:

           I'll respond to your question about the meaning of "ur,"
           Steve.
"Ur-" is a prefix that is used in German, actually. It
               has been around
               since the year dot in German, but it has become a bit
               of a fad recently for
               English speakers.
               Ur- is a prefix which means original or prototypical.
               I mostlly know it
               from Goethe's idea of /Urphaenomen/ which is the
               original of Vygotsky's
               "unit of analysis", should I say, the Urunit? This is
               because of
               Goethe/Hegel/Marx/Vygotsky's idea that in order to
               understand some complex
process as a whole (i.e. a /Gestalt/) then you have to
               begin with the
               simplest unit of it, it's germ or cell. So the
               reference is to an
               (artefact-mediated) action as the ur- of psychology
               and cultivated human
               life.

               Does that help, Steve?

               Andy


               Steve Gabosch wrote:

... "Generalizing Dual Stimulation.

                   * The ur characteristic of higher psychologically
                   (culturally mediated)
                   human action is that it operates indirectly,
                   through the environment.
                   * DS method is the ur model of human action
                   incorporates the environment
                   as tools for action.  But it must be generalized
                   into group as well as
                   individual circumstances."

                   Mike urges the non-Russians at the conference to
                   ask their fellow Russian
                   attendees what 'ur' means.

                   So - to our fellow Russian speakers - what does
                   'ur' mean in Mike's
                   slide?


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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
   *Andy Blunden*
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--
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*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
MIA: http://www.marxists.org

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