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Re: [xmca] play and the imaginal




Larry--

Excited by your observations, I am writing to offer a few responses.

First, there is a lot of evidence that 5-year-olds in the U.S coordinate
their play interactions with one another without any need for adult
guidance.  Actually, children's efforts to seek mutuality or
intersubjectivity which require coordination of play activity emerges
around three years of age.

Second, play varies a great deal as a function of the availability of the
partners, toys, time etc.  Therefore, I think it is important to observe
children in different contexts to see whether or how they coordinate their
actions in play instead of relying on one observation.

Third, in my experience both as a former preschool teacher and as a
researcher, I found out that preschool/kindergarten children have a pretty
good notion of what is acceptable play when their partners are adults as
opposed to their peers.   That is, children do not do everything in play
when they are playing with adults that they normally would do when they
are with their peers.  Based on this, it can be argued that the kind of
coordination you have observed is a function of what the five-year-olds
thought would be an appropriate thing for you to see.  The kind of
interaction and the resultant coordination you report looks more like a
lesson than play coordination which is almost always what happens when
adults become play partners.  So, I take it only as one of many different
kinds of coordinations rather than the only one..

Fourth and finally, yes indeed, there are cultural differences in many
aspects of play including social participation.

Best, Artin



On Wed, October 20, 2010 9:47 am, Larry Purss wrote:
> Sue
> I would agree that in other social arrangements there would be a different
> relational pattern of 7 year olds guiding 3 year olds.
> My question was more centrally asking about the "influence" of
> historicized
> development and enculturation IF we arrange to have only  5 year olds
> interact with each other.  I have observed many different groupings of 5
> year olds at "centers" which is an institutionalized and "artifactual"
> grouping which in Canada facilitates particular kinds of social relational
> patterns where the 5 year olds "parallel" play.  This is often explained
> as
> a developmental stage. However, if it is actually historicized
> development,
> then possibly when 5 year olds [with other patterns of enculturation] are
> put in a "centers" structure may actually [at 5 years old] interact in
> more
> mutually shared patterns [without the assistance of 7 year old or adult
> guidance]  My question is about how a group of 5 year olds [without
> guidance] orient and co-ordinate their activities in similar ways when put
> in a "centers" environment  [ie "parallel" play"]. An alternative
> possibility is that after 5 years of being enculturated in particular
> relational patterns of interaction these patterns are internalized and
> therefore the activities at the "centers" is more co-ordinated [among the
> 5
> year olds without guidance]
> Sue, when I entered that play world I was wondering about ontological and
> historical development and similarities and differences in how 5 year olds
> orient to co-ordinating activities when left to there own devices.
>
> Larry
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Sue March <suemarch@netspace.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Or was it because 5 year olds were playing with 5 year olds, and not as
>> part
>> of a multi-age community, with 7 year olds taking the lead and 3 year
>> olds
>> needing to be brought into the fold?
>> Sue
>>
>>
>> On 20/10/10 4:46 PM, "Larry Purss" <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I want to think out loud about play in school settings.
>> >
>> > In September, when 5 year olds arrive at school, they are introduced
>> in
>> > Kindergarten to "centers" the spaces in Kindergarten classes where the
>> > children go to play.  The other day I sat down with 4 boys at the
>> "playdough
>> > center"  Each child sat around the table with their own individual
>> > playdough. They were inteent on their individual projects but were
>> involved
>> > in "parallel" play.
>> > Now with my "vygotskian eyes" I reflected on my position as an adult
>> who
>> was
>> > in a position to "lead" this activity and CO-ORDINATE the activity.
>>  However
>> > I also was sensitive that I wanted the "agency" of the children to be
>> > EXPRESSED.
>> > The following steps were taken.
>> > I noticed one boy was making cookies while the others were doing their
>> own
>> > thing.  I asked the boy what he was making. He replied "cookies"  [a
>> social
>> > representation from another activity system] I then asked how many
>> cookies
>> > he was making. "Three" he answered.  I responded, but there are five
>> of
>> us
>> > at the table [I was acting AS IF he was including all of us] He
>> poceeded
>> to
>> > make 2 more. Then I asked if he was going to share the cookies?  He
>> replied
>> > they needed to go in the oven first and brought them over to a book
>> shelf. I
>> > made the noise "tick, tick, tick" like a timer and one of the other
>> boys
>> > said "Ding" like the chime of the oven going off.  We all laughed and
>> the
>> > other boys were slowly orienting and CO-ORDINATING with my and the
>> boys
>> > activity.  Then the boy who was making a person from playdough took
>> his
>> > person over to the "oven" and one of the other boys said "Oh, a
>> gingerbread
>> > man" Then I heard all 4 boys go "tick, tick, tick" for a long time
>> before
>> > someone said "ding" and we all laughed.  Soon all 4 boys were making
>> cookies
>> > with each one taking the lead and shifting the flow of activity BUT
>> now
>> the
>> > activity was co-ordinated.  When it was time to "share" the cookies I
>> > insisted on proper manners [we waited till we all had a cookie before
>> we
>> ate
>> > etc] This activity became more and more animated and definately the
>> level
>> of
>> > language and interactivity was being scaffolded.
>> >
>> > Now for my question or musing.
>> > Was the "individual" parallel play of these students a historically
>> situated
>> > form of activity because since birth, we in this culture share a
>> notion
>> of
>> > "individual" play and the encapsulated self is implied in all our
>> activity
>> > OR is this form of "autistic like" play more of a universal phenomena
>> and
>> a
>> > "stage" or layer which all children pass through. My question is going
>> back
>> > to the tension between socio-relational and socio-cultural analysis.
>> > This simple activity I participated in [and as the adult took a
>> leading
>> > position] as I intentionally co-ordinated a shared activity I was
>> creating
>> > will lead development and social-relational activity in a certain
>> > direction.  It is my version of "right-relation"
>> > Creating classroom "dramas" is another form of imaginal co-ordination
>> and
>> if
>> > done systematically over time will lead to a different kind of person.
>> > Having play centers where the children work out their relationships
>> among
>> > peers [and the dominant child takes the lead] is another form of
>> > developmental social relations.
>> >
>> > I am curious if the way the 5 year olds were interacting BEFORE I sat
>> down
>> > with them [which seems so self-contained within their own individual
>> space]
>> > is a very specific historically formed pattern of "play activity" or
>> is
>> the
>> > lack of co-ordination similar across multiple cultural settings when 5
>> year
>> > olds play without adult supervision?
>> >
>> > Larry
>> > __________________________________________
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>>
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Artin Goncu, Ph.D
Professor,
Educational Psychology
College of Education M/C 147
1040 W. Harrison St.
Chicago, IL 60607
http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
(312) 996-5259

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