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Re: [xmca] dualism

I wonder if you could offer any hints, Mike. I started listening to one of the brain-freaks, and to be honest I got bored. Though the production values were good. There is so much of this idiocy around. Is there some good people there (apart from good ol' Steven Rose)?
I recently reviewed a collection of articles around this area ("Psychology's Territories") for "Theory & Psychology," covering "both sides" of the debate, which had some interesting takes on the question, some great stuff from historians of science. But in reading one of the "ruthless reductionists" (Wolfgang Prinz), I realized that Vygotsky offered us what I think is a good angle for making some kind of a bridge to these people that think that consciousness is an illusion. I think we should agree with them. But we should say,
"Yes, it's an illusion but one which nonetheless allows us to survive and prosper (they'll agree with that) and it's an illusion which can be studied scientifically (perking up their interest). My consciousness is an illusion (well, an appearance really, because it is not mistaken), but for me, *your* consciousness is real (surprise, interest), and by observing your behaviour I can even tell what's in it. But I seriously doubt that you will ever figure out what's in it by looking at physiology. If it's an illusion, what do you expect to find in brain tissue?" 

What do you think?
Andy

mike cole wrote:
Thanks Andy-- Politzer is a very interesting figure in the Vygotskiana world. 

If you have not done so, i really recommend the talks at the Danish Conf
on meaning beyond the brain both for a lot you can agree with and news from interesting folks you have probably not encountered that you might or might agree with. Interesting in all events. 

http://www.dpu.dk/site.aspx?p=14668

mike
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: 

    A FaceBook friend recently drew my attention to this fascinating
    commentary on Descartes by the early Marxist Psychologist, George
    Politzer:

    http://marx.org/archive/politzer/works/1937/descartes-tricentennial.htm

    Andy
    Martin Packer wrote:

        Can you give some textual evidence for this statement, Michael?

        Martin


        On Feb 26, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Michael Glassman wrote:

            Martin, David, Jorge, all

            .But
            these organizational structures are definitely inside of the
            head for
            Vygotsky so there really is no way for him to escape dualism.



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    Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
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Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, Ilyenkov $20 ea 

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