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Re: [xmca] about emotions

Bom dia, meu lindo
Check out this link. . .
On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:30 PM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:

I thought this was a well done review of the philosophy of emotion:

Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
11/25/2009 12:36 AM
Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"

To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions

Oh, sure, this a problem, above all, a problem not only a postulate.
I don't know about Winnicott, but human objects have a meaning too,
this semiotic dimension of an object, by any process is converted from
social relations to the social structure of personality... Vygotsky
emphasizes ideological process in human emotion constitutions, for
instance the difference between cellos in the Mussulman culture and
in occidental culture... And even historical transformations in our way
to feel something... including love... This seems to be an interesting
approach, because seems to trace a kind of anthropological view to
the question. Not only our tools, actions and signs historically
but our emotions too, in a systemic and inter-functional set. These
are some ideas that pass through me reading this chapter. But most
part of time Vygotsky is criticizing Descartes, James/Lange, Freud,
Scheler/Lotze... and his own affirmative position is only announced.
Winnicott can be a good contribution, I don´t know, how important
is the culture and the history to Winniccot? These transitional objetcs
chances only in form retaining the unconscious contends? Or the un-
conscious contends can change ideologically, culturally and historically? How constitutional can be history, culture and ideology in human feelings?
The sample of Alighieri is very interesting... How many social process
are important in love, for instance... not immediated ones, has you say,
but mediated process... Its complex, Vygotsky refuses the "peripheral
hypothesis, than the central, properly human, neuro-functional formations
will take a decisive role em the entire process... I don´t now, I only
have a problem, not sufficiently organized of course. I had read about
"perezhivanie" and its metodologycal role as "dynamic unit"... and
are close, even they are not the same.

Thank you, Andy.
Best wishes.

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:09:03 +1100
From: ablunden@mira.net
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions

Achilles, this is a fascinating problem, isn't it? It's
kinda way out of my area, but can I just offer a couple of
innane observations from my own remote point of view?

1. We should think of the body as an artifact which as such
plays the same mediating role in consciousness as do other
artifacts. We have a thought, our stomach tenses up, we feel
that tension in the stomach.  Thus the emotional reaction in
our guts mediates our feeling about the thought. etc.

2. Donald Winnicott's current of psychoanalysis for all its
faults brings Freud much closer to CHAT by his study of
(transitional) objects which act as mediating elements for
us, bearers of affect and association. Same kind of thing as
1., but the artifact is external to the body, but has
pesonal meaning.


Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
Some quotes, from Vygotsky

Little attention has been given to this aspect of the problem because
the problem
of man did not at all arise before contemporary psychology. But from
the very
beginning, even the authors of the theory and their critics understood
that in the
visceral hypothesis, they were speaking in essence of the animal
nature of human
emotions. We will cite Chabrier, who advanced this idea in the most
complete form.
Chabrier says that with this problem, we penetrate into the heart of
the problem
and touch on the major objection that rises against the peripheral
theory. When
we are speaking about instincts, we have before us an absolutely and
established mechanism, which is activated automatically as soon as an
stimulation appears. It is possible that this is true also with
respect to the primitive
emotions of the child, but it cannot be the same with respect to the
usual emotions
of adults. (Vygotsky, 1999, p. 206)

Chabrier completely justifiably refers to the fact that a feeling of
hunger, usually
considered in the group of lower bodily feelings in civilized man, is
already a
fine feeling from the point of view of the nomenclature of James, that
the simple
need of food can acquire a religious sense when it leads to the
appearance of a
symbolic rite of mystical communication between man and God. And
a religious feeling, usually considered as a purely spiritual emotion,
in pious cannibals
bringing human sacrifices to the gods, can scarcely he referred to the
of higher emotions. Consequently, there is no emotion that by nature
would be
independent of the body and not connected with it. James' book, The
VrJrieties of
Religious Experience, shows incontrovertibly the extent to which
higher feelings are
closely connected with all the fibers of our body. (Vygotsky, 1999, p.

Separating emotions from the development of a system of ideas and
their dependence exclusively on organic structures, James inevitably
to the fatalistic conception of emotions which encompasses animals and
equally. The serious differences that human emotions display depending
on the
era, the degree of civilization, the difference between mystical
adoration of a knight
for his lady and the noble gallantry of the seventeenth century,
remain unexplained
from the point of view of this theory. Chabrier says, if we imagine
the infinitely
rich nature of the poorest emotion, if we pay less attention to the
imaginary psychology
of single-celled organisms than to the remarkable analysis of
novelists and
writers, if we simply make use of valuable data supplied by
observations of people
around us, we cannot but admit the complete failure of the peripheral
theory. Actually,
it is impossible to admit that simple perception of a female
silhouette automatically
evoked an endless series of organic reactions of which could be born
such as the love of Dante for Beatrice if we do not previously assume
the whole
ensemble of theological, political, esthetic, and scientific ideas
that comprised the
consciousness of the genius, AJighieri. (Vygosky, 1999, p. 207)

I have atached before, to you see something, but perhaps with these
direct quotes
you can tell me more about... Mainlly the question about historical,
cultural ideological
constitution of human emotions... If the development of this could not
be looking for
in Past, any suggestions about clues in present and future are very
welcome too.

Thank you very much.

From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:07 +0000

Oh, incredible! Thank you very much. You are a "power plant",
always working.

Oh, "thick" have many meanings, I see. But, if it is about number
of pages, there are 157 pages.... according my Google sources...

Then you see, please, what must I do to pay the order.

Muito obrigado.

Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:03:23 -0800
Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions
From: lchcmike@gmail.com
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
CC: VEER@fsw.leidenuniv.nl


Voila!! The book is in library at UC Berkeley. I have ordered it.
Lets see
how thick it is.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:49 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>

I cannot find a thing, Achilles.
Lets see if we can elicit some help.

Rene-- Do you know of this work? Is it of enduring signicance?


On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:


How are you? I wish fine.

I was studding the Vygotsky's "Teaching about emotions"
and at the chapter 18 (see atached) I find very interesting
mentions to Chabrier - (I guess Joseph François Chabrier that
wrote "Les émotions et les états organiques" in 1911). The
contributions from Chabrier are linked with Vygotsky's concerns
for criticize dualistic views about emotions, and to understand
actual relations between emotions and

- consciousness
- culture
- ideology
- history
- and personality

I search a lot for Chabrier, but there was practically nothing.
Nothing in Amazon, nothing in Google books. And French Libraries
don't send to Brazil.

Somebody have any suggestion, please? Any useful kind of service
to legally obtain the book? Some kind of "East View" to French

Thank you very much.

from Brazil.

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