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Re: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"

So now we have 3d. Thanks all.
I have a "draft" response somewhere in this long string.
Was it, perhaps, a query about where the French fit in?
Both 19th and 20th century seem relevant
mike

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:07 PM, David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote:
> Very cool.
> Thanks Jonas, thanks Andy.
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:47 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
>
> Jonas, The technical manager at marxists.org, has stepped in
> and written some Javascript for us, and thanks to Bruce
> Jones who has loaded the half-dozen successive versions of
> this thing, we now have a diagram with longlasting "tool
> tip" explanations for each writer, as well as a Wikipedia link:
>
>   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
>
> If anyone wants to use this in their teaching, but doesn't
> want to swallow my version of history, it is quite easy to
> change the text in the boxes and if you can take the trouble
> the whole thing is easily modified to taste. If anyone wants
> to do that I am happy to advise. ...
>
> Andy
>
> Andy Blunden wrote:
>> You are quite correct, Juha. Since I have been browsing the advice pages
>> I have been told exactly what you say. Also, people using FireFox will
>> not see it at all. I have sent Bruce a version using the title=tag
>> instead which should fix that. The various Javascript fixes that people
>> suggest are really complicated, definitely for experts only, so at this
>> point, we will have to put up with it. Of course, if you click the name,
>> you get the full wikipedia story.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
>>
>>
>> Juha Siltala wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There is no way to control the timeout that I'm aware of. I suppose the
>>> information should probably be displayed in a javascript popup or
>>> something like that.
>>>
>>> Using the image ALT text in this way is actually a case of creative
>>> misuse of a standard HTML accessibility feature: ALT text was originally
>>> designed to be shown *instead* of the image for those who are using a
>>> non-graphical browsers such as Lynx, not for showing extra information.
>>> In the recent years, the most common non-standard use for ALT text has
>>> been many webcomic artists' habit of inserting an extra joke in it -
>>> check out the wonderful XKCD for example, at http://xkcd.com/ .
>>>
>>> Another case of users putting technology into uses never envisioned by
>>> its designers I guess. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> JS
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 18:42 -0600, David H Kirshner wrote:
>>>> Andy, I replied off-line, but your response was intended for on-line, so
>>>> I'm forwarding to the list. ...David
>>>>
>>>> David H Kirshner wrote:
>>>>> Much appreciate the graphic, Andy.
>>>>> Unfortunately the accompanying text lingers for only a few seconds
>>>>> before needing to be refreshed by moving cursor out of and back into
>>>>> box. Is this something that can be controlled on your end?
>>>> Andy replied: Yes, very annoying, isn't it David. I have searched
>>>> around the internet, but so far I haven't found any way of
>>>> controlling this time. Any HTML or Java whizzkids out there?
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>              Andy Blunden
>>>>>
>>>>>              <ablunden@mira.ne
>>>>>
>>>>>              t>
>>>>> To              Sent by:                  "eXtended Mind, Culture,
>>>>> Activity"               xmca-bounces@webe         <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>
>>>>>              r.ucsd.edu
>>>>> cc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject              11/11/2009 01:18          Re: [xmca] Arne
>>>>> Raeithel's
>>>>>
>>>>>              AM                        "genealogy"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>              Please respond to
>>>>>
>>>>>              ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>
>>>>>              ; Please respond
>>>>>
>>>>>                     to
>>>>>
>>>>>               "eXtended Mind,
>>>>>
>>>>>                  Culture,
>>>>>
>>>>>                  Activity"
>>>>>
>>>>>              <xmca@weber.ucsd.
>>>>>
>>>>>                    edu>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced the PDF with an HTML version, which gives you
>>>>> little 50-word summaries of what each contributed to CHAT
>>>>> (when you hover) and a link to their Wikipedia page (when
>>>>> you click).
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>> Andy, thinking on this a bit further, it seems to me that these
>>>>> diagrams
>>>>>> are trying to do two different things at the same time. One is to
>>>>>> provide helpful contextual information to anyone reading LSV's texts.
>>>>> I
>>>>>> think this itself is a valuable enterprise, one that compensates a
>>>>>> little for the minimal teaching of the history of the discipline in
>>>>>> psychology, at least. A diagram serving this purpose need go no
>>>>> further
>>>>>> towards the present than the end of Vygotsky's life. And for this the
>>>>>> lines to and from Vygotsky himself would be redundant; he would be
>>>>>> connected to everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A second task, and a distinct one in my view, would be a diagram
>>>>>> indicating forms of, and influences on, CHAT today. Here people like
>>>>>> Helmholtz and Fichte would, I think, not play a role - their
>>>> influence
>>>>>> would be entirely mediated by LSV. And such a diagram would be more
>>>>>> detailed about the present: for example, the last row of your diagram
>>>>> is
>>>>>> almost exclusively people working in the US; it would be helpful to
>>>>> see
>>>>>> here Scandinavian, German, British, etc. schools of CHAT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not volunteering you for the work (nor do I have time to do it
>>>>>> myself), just trying to think through the role of this kind of
>>>>>> representational reconstruction of intellectual history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 9, 2009, at 12:18 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it is mind-boggling. Probably better for people to produce a
>>>>>>> multiplicity of different perspectives, than try to produce a master
>>>>>>> view. There are so many angles!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lewin is interesting. Not only was he close to the Frankfurt School,
>>>>>>> but he also worked with Vygotsky, and I suspect this is where
>>>>> Vygotsky
>>>>>>> got a lot of his Hegel from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>> Andy, I think the map is interesting and useful. But how about
>>>> this.
>>>>>>>> I was exploring further on the virtual library that I mentioned in
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> prior message. It turns out there's quite a lot there in English,
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> only German. I had been enjoying myself browsing through scans of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> papers of Carl Stumpf, who was teacher of both Kurt Lewin and
>>>> Edmund
>>>>>>>> Husserl. Teacher-student seems to me one important connection
>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> figures. Lewin apparently had regular contact with the Frankfurt
>>>>>>>> School (connection of 'colleague') before leaving for the US, where
>>>>>>>> he would have found himself transplanted into the new milieu of
>>>>>>>> behaviorism.
>>>>>>>> I think Mike is right, we need 3D!
>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I've been thinking ... What these diagrams lack is any information
>>>>>>>>> about why a writer is included and what they contributed to CHAT.
>>>>>>>>> Would anyone on the list like to put their hand up to write a
>>>>>>>>> paragraph (max 100 words probably) on a writer on the diagram
>>>>>>>>> explaining their contribution to CHAT and their sources? I would
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> happy to collate them and fix the essays to hyperlinks on the
>>>> names
>>>>>>>>> of each writer? ... if others do most of the writing ... then the
>>>>>>>>> diagram might be genuinely useful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Mmmmm. I didn't sign up for an intellecual map of the universe
>>>>>>>>>> here! The French Revolution produced a mass of political theory
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> course, but also, it is widely regarded as the inspiration for
>>>>>>>>>> Classical German Philosophy, which is one of our sources.
>>>>>>>>>> World War One?  I don't know, but I have thought in the past that
>>>>>>>>>> what Vygotsky called "The Crisis in Psychology", viz., the myriad
>>>>>>>>>> of conflicting currents in psychology suddenly contesting each
>>>>>>>>>> other after WW1, was some kind of reaction to WW1 and the Russian
>>>>>>>>>> Revolution.
>>>>>>>>>> The Reformation and the Industrial Revolution deserve mention
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere too, in the atlas of ideas. ...
>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmmmm, like the French revolution or world war I for example?
>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   Both Arne's and mine are listed on
>>>>>>>>>>>   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/index.html and both are in that
>>>>>>>>>>>   directory. I too would be interested in seeing some other
>>>>> versions.
>>>>>>>>>>>   Something might emerge out of the crowd.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   It is interesting isn't that it is a quite small number of ...
>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>   do you say? ... millieux? events? movements? which produced
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>>   ideas, via a whole mass of individual writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       I think your pictured genealogy is interesting, Andy. I
>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>>>       Arne's was too, and I a sure others can make interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>       modifications. If anyone could do this in three D it could
>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>       really fascinating.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Part of what makes for the partiality of any such attempt
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>       position of the creator. Arne was a radical cultural
>>>>> historical
>>>>>>>>>>>       cognitive scientist of the
>>>>>>>>>>>       70's-90's (roughly), an importatant odd hybrid and
>>>>> unusually
>>>>>>>>>>>       nice guy.
>>>>>>>>>>>       Maturana, who is on his list, with Varela, were central
>>>>> figures
>>>>>>>>>>>       on bringing
>>>>>>>>>>>       dynamic systems into the discussion but you do not know
>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>       him just
>>>>>>>>>>>       as many of us do not know some of the figures you name,
>>>> and
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>       connections such as Dilthey-Wundt or Mead-Dilthey-American
>>>>>>>>>>>       pragmatism are poorly known altogether, but fascinating
>>>> (to
>>>>>>>>>>> me!)
>>>>>>>>>>>       in their implications.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       And, of course, the historical events that various of us
>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>       highlight as
>>>>>>>>>>>       most relevant are going to vary as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Thanks for the new tool to think with. I'll try to get
>>>>> Arne's
>>>>>>>>>>>       genealogy put
>>>>>>>>>>>       up where yours is and perhaps others will contribute from
>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>       perspectives.
>>>>>>>>>>>       mike
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Andy Blunden
>>>>> <ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>          Well, here's my shot at it:
>>>>>>>>>>>            http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>          I have tried to deal with your very valid point,
>>>> Martin,
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>       it is
>>>>>>>>>>>          more the milieux than individuals, but I have also just
>>>>>>>>>>> omitted a
>>>>>>>>>>>          billion possible arrows so it is readable. It needs
>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> than one
>>>>>>>>>>>          person to do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>          Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>          Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>              My question about the map is what the links
>>>>>>>>>>> represent. After
>>>>>>>>>>>              all, one scientist or philosopher may accept the
>>>>>>>>>>> ideas or
>>>>>>>>>>>              another, or react against them, or modify them, or
>>>>>>>>>>>       misunderstand
>>>>>>>>>>>              them. Seems to me each of these is a different
>>>> link.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, a
>>>>>>>>>>>              family tree indicates two parents for every
>>>> progeny,
>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>              Arne's genealogy seemingly shows spontaneous
>>>>>>>>>>> generation - one
>>>>>>>>>>>              figure alone can produce another. And wouldn't we
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>       have a
>>>>>>>>>>>              way to map the milieus within which people were
>>>>> working?
>>>>>>>>>>>       Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>              something along the lines of the social fields that
>>>>>>>>>>>       Bourdieu was
>>>>>>>>>>>              fond of sketching, but with an added historical
>>>>>>>>>>> dimension.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>              Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>              On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  To tell the truth Louise, there are a couple of
>>>>>>>>>>> names I
>>>>>>>>>>>                  don't know and half a dozen I know so little
>>>>> about
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>       don't
>>>>>>>>>>>                  know why they're included ... or not. Two of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>>                  "outcomes" are people who think humans are a
>>>>> type
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>                  computer, so I am not surpised that this
>>>>>>>>>>> genealogy is
>>>>>>>>>>>       odd to
>>>>>>>>>>>                  me. But there is sooooo much out there. So much
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>       read. :(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Up till a few weeks ago I thought that starting
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Descartes was not justified, but I take that
>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>       now. But
>>>>>>>>>>>                  somehow, Rene's nemesis, Aristotle, needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>>       included as
>>>>>>>>>>>                  well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I don't know anything about Vico, but I find
>>>>> Locke,
>>>>>>>>>>>       Berkeley
>>>>>>>>>>>                  and Leibniz to be rather peripheral to *our*
>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Kant certainly deserves an important place, but
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>       think his
>>>>>>>>>>>                  nemesis, Goethe, may be more important for us.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Fichte is actually the inventor of Activity as
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>                  philosophical concept (I just learnt that Hegel
>>>>>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>>>>>>       to be
>>>>>>>>>>>                  buried next to Fichte; like Goethe, very under
>>>>>>>>>>>       recognized in
>>>>>>>>>>>                  the Anglophone world).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Hegel is the inventor of Cultural Psychology,
>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>       agreed there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I think Stirner and Mach are total diversions
>>>>>>>>>>> from our
>>>>>>>>>>>                  tradition. But maybe someone can explain to me
>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>       role.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Wundt and Dilthey are important, though I don't
>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>       them well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Feuerbach is a bit of a footnote, but if you're
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>>                  have Feuerbach, you've gotta have Moses Hess,
>>>>>>>>>>> author of
>>>>>>>>>>>                  "Philosophy of the Deed", and inspiration for
>>>>>>>>>>> "Theses on
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Feuerbach". Of course if you think Frege,
>>>>> Russell
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>       Turing
>>>>>>>>>>>                  are important to the genealogy of CHAT, then
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>                  want Hess.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  MARX, obviously, in CAPS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  And I would have lines from a whole bunch of
>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>       going to
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Dewey, as well as Peirce and Mead, but even
>>>>>>>>>>> though Peirce
>>>>>>>>>>>                  was the elder, I don't think you can give him
>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>       priority.
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Dewey surely was the leader. Arguable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  And where are the Gestaltists? Again, not for
>>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>>>>                  cognition, but there needs to be lines between
>>>>>>>>>>> Goethe and
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Kant and then to von Ehrenfels, and on to
>>>>> Koehler
>>>>>>>>>>> and Co.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Russian linguists like Potebnya, but I don't
>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>       where they
>>>>>>>>>>>                  came from.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  And these threads are all tied together with LS
>>>>>>>>>>>       Vygotsky, yes?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Freud has to be mentioned (I forget his
>>>>> sources),
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>                  arrows to Luria. And after Vygotsky and Luria
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>       have ANL
>>>>>>>>>>>                  and thus to present day people,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I guess, you can't leave out Piaget, and I
>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Piaget's sources.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I know some people rate Merleau-Ponty, but if
>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>       going
>>>>>>>>>>>                  to give Merleau-Pony a seat, you have to put in
>>>>>>>>>>>       Lukacs and
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Horkheimer. I guess Habermas for discourse
>>>>>>>>>>> ethics, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Husserl and Heidegger get a
>>>>>>>>>>>       mention. I my
>>>>>>>>>>>                  humble opinion, as clever as they might be,
>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>       impact on
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Activity Theory has only been negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Bergson is mentioned: was he
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>       source for
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Piaget? Don't know why Nietzsche is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>       Interesting guy,
>>>>>>>>>>>                  but so are many others. Why von Uexhill?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  I agree that Wittgenstein rates a mention,
>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>                  know how much of a source he has been for us.
>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>> is some
>>>>>>>>>>>                  kind of version of Activity Theory.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Frege, Russell and Turing are nothing to do
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>       CHAT. What
>>>>>>>>>>>                  about anthropologists??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Never heard of Maturana.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  That's my reaction,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Louise Hawkins wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Andy,
>>>>>>>>>>>                      I remember seeing this diagram a number of
>>>>>>>>>>> years ago,
>>>>>>>>>>>                      and I found it useful as a big picture
>>>>>>>>>>> diagram to
>>>>>>>>>>>       get my
>>>>>>>>>>>                      head around the significant theorist.
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Louise Hawkins
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Lecturer - School of Management &
>>>>> Information
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Faculty Business & Informatics
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Building 19/Room 3.38
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Rockhampton Campus
>>>>>>>>>>>                      CQUniversity
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Ph: +617 4923 2768
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Fax: +617 4930 9729
>>>>>>>>>>>                       -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>                      From: Andy Blunden
>>>> [mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>] Sent: Wednesday, 4 November
>>>>>>>>>>>                      2009 01:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>                      To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Subject: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/Theoretical%20connections.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>                      I never found this map very useful to be
>>>>> honest.
>>>>>>>>>>>                      Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>                      mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                          Have you found Arne Raeithel's
>>>>>>>>>>> "genealogy" of
>>>>>>>>>>>                          cultural-historical, activity theory
>>>>>>>>>>> thinkers
>>>>>>>>>>>       from
>>>>>>>>>>>                          several years back. I am sure it is
>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere at
>>>>>>>>>>>                          lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>       <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>                          <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>. Perhaps you
>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> Andy,
>>>>>>>>>>>                          and.....) could update it with
>>>>>>>>>>>                          more detail. Hegel generated so much
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>       been
>>>>>>>>>>>                          "laundered" by subsequent "original"
>>>>>>>>>>> thinkers its
>>>>>>>>>>>                          totally amazing, and ditto Mead (whose
>>>>>>>>>>> writings i
>>>>>>>>>>>                          know far better, although very
>>>>>>>>>>> inadequately).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
>>>>>>>>>>>       Meshcheryakov,
>>>>>>>>>>>                  Ilyenkov $20 ea
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>                  xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>                  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                  http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>          --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>          Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>          Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
>>>>> Meshcheryakov,
>>>>>>>>>>>          Ilyenkov $20 ea
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>          xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>          xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>   Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>   Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
>>>>>>>>>>>   Ilyenkov $20 ea
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>>>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
>>>>>>>>> Ilyenkov $20 ea
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
>>>> Ilyenkov
>>>>>>> $20 ea
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
>>>>> Ilyenkov $20 ea
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> Ilyenkov $20 ea
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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