Re: [xmca] Consciousness "only a part of the material quality of the man-sign"

[Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@yahoo.com>]

Dear Andy
 
I had a previous post which deals with some of the problems you are discussing with Martin . Either Martin did not read it or kept silent . 
 
Though you are engaged in a very hot debate , we expect you to open all messages . 
 
Now you ask Martin to tell you a representational system which is not *material* . I tell you *language* is a system which is not material . Martin mixed the materiality of the President with the sentence he wrote referring to Him . I opine Martin (maybe you) take the materiality of the ink and that of the sound waves for the *materiality* of the language itself . Language , as a system of representations is ideal ; what it articulates *might* be material . It's also secondary as Cs is . And you know it's a *formant* of the Cs . 
 
And we have other systems : models , statues , copies , books , clocks and watches -- our distant past debate , not just the hands of the clock but the clock itself -- , even churches vis a vis ordinary buildings representing a relation between God and His Slaves / Worshippers or the angels carved thereon . 
 
And the yardstick which still measures accurately will be the two Lenin conditions : 1. Being outside of the mind 2. Being independent of the mind/Cs . The above realize just the first condition . 
 
Best
 
Haydi

--- On Fri, 9/25/09, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:


From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Consciousness "only a part of the material quality of the man-sign"
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 1:09 AM


Martin, tell me a representational system which is *not* material.

a

Martin Packer wrote:
> humans have evolved to use an ordered series of "representational systems." The sequence is as follows: the episodic, mimetic, mythic, and theoretic. I won't go into the details, but crucially important, I think, is that these systems are material. 

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