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RE: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and relearning
I think this plug is well placed because methodology is really central to
this discussion. How do we know what we know in any field? The tools and
resources that are available and shared in common are the tools that can be
used for communication. An old tool maybe used until a new one, a better one
is invented. The idea of a computational theory of mind--when this was
simplistic, based on a more simple computational machine--input, function,
output. One of the best things that happened because of this model was that
researchers had to test it. The human brain is not a simple, computational
machine! We know this now. Now, one of the words I see most often in
discussions of the brain function is "complex". Computational models are
evolving to accommodate this. Those who used to think of the development of
the human as an individual unit are also realizing that the individual
exists within and is a part of a larger system and that must be accounted
for in models as well. It is fascinating to see how old ideas re-circulate
and feed new work.
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:47 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and relearning
Perhaps this is just a plug for phenomenology, but I can't resist
pointing out that Maurice Merleau-Ponty was able to use
neurophysiological literature concerning brain-damaged patients (by
Head and others) as evidence *against* both a computational theory of
mind and biological reductionism. Old habits of thinking certainly die
hard, but they *are. habits, not necessary paths for thought.
Martin
On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Monica Hansen wrote:
> Steve:
> I like the way you pose the last question: At the same time, some of
> the
> dominant trends in
> contemporary neuroeducational theory seem to revolve around time-worn
> biological reductionist ideas - almost with a vengeance. New bottles,
> but some of the same old wine.
>
> Because the method of the tradition of academic inquiry in the natural
> sciences is a strong contributor to work in this area (physiology,
> biology,
> chemistry, etc) we would expect to see this. What is so great with
> this
> recent tide of research in neuroscience, is that we are finding more
> "evidence" that cannot be explained by the traditional models. Not
> the same
> old wine--a different wine that needs new packaging; it's just the
> production facility only has bottles, labels, the same old equipment.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:29 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
> relearning
>
> What interesting books, Emily. Thank you.
>
> Virginia Berninger and Todd Richards, who are at the UW Seattle in my
> neck of the US woods, say (as revealed by Amazon Books Look Inside) in
> the Introduction to this textbook that they rely on Luria:
>
> "In Parts I and II we lay the groundwork for the complexities of
> systems of brains and minds at work and in doing so draw on the work
> of a Russian neuropsychologist, A.R. Luria (1973), who introduced the
> notion of functional systems of a brain at work. However, Luria based
> his conclusions on study of individuals with brain damage, whereas we
> base ours on study of normally developing individuals with and without
> learning differences and not on those with brain damage. Although
> Luria did not study the processes of teaching and learning academic
> subjects in the same depth or setting as contemporary researchers in
> many disciplines do, we credit Luria with the fundamental insight that
> multiple brain structures may be involved in one function and that the
> same brain structures can participate in more than one functional
> system."
> p8, Brain Literacy for Educators and Psychologists (2002)
>
> Great to see Luria given this credit. Question: Where does Luria's
> The Working Brain: An Introduction to Neuropsychology (1973) fit in to
> this kind of study? Is his book accessible, is it too out of date,
> etc.?
>
> Thanks much for the attachments. (I keep getting the same Howard-
> Jones article out of the first two attachments, btw).
>
> Next AERA conference I go to, I will pay some serious attention to
> what the people in neuroeducation are doing - there really does appear
> to be something burgeoning there. My take so far ... see what you
> think ... is that one can expect all the current major trends in the
> general social, life and natural sciences to reappear in this new
> interdisciplinary field - but on a new level, reflecting some of the
> advances of recent decades, such as an increased awareness of the
> central role of cultural experience ... just as, for example,
> cognitive science in its developmental years absorbed some of the
> newer ideas of its time (computer science, game theory, general
> systems theory, etc. etc.). Neuroeducation seems to be consolidating
> the surge in knowledge from research in cognition and learning in
> recent decades - and especially, finding ways to theorize about and
> apply the vast new research insights that brain imaging technology is
> making possible. At the same time, some of the dominant trends in
> contemporary neuroeducational theory seem to revolve around time-worn
> biological reductionist ideas - almost with a vengeance. New bottles,
> but some of the same old wine. Am I in the ballpark?
>
> - Steve
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Duvall, Emily wrote:
>
>> Glad you found it interesting, Steve!
>>
>> To start, I guess it depends on how much you want to know, but
>> generally
>> I find it important to work with diagrams and video, some kind of
>> visual
>> support (I've started to include brain drawings as an assignment in
>> my
>> class) as well as articles. The Berninger & Richards text works
>> well in
>> conjunction with the Brain Coloring Book to get you going. You don't
>> have to memorize everything, but it's helpful to understand the macro
>> and microstructures from a systems perspective in order to begin to
>> bridge the discourse.
>>
>> Others may have different favorites, but I suggest The Jossey-Bass
>> Reader on the Brain and Learning... and (brand new, I haven't read my
>> copy): The Educated Brain: Essays in Neuroeducation. Meanwhile, I've
>> attached a couple of general articles by Howard-Jones and one of the
>> more interesting pieces on VAK by Sharp et al.
>>
>> As to where this discussion is taking place? I am still relatively
>> new
>> and don't have any peeps other than those I am cultivating in my
>> classes
>> and several open minded folks on the neuroscience faculty with
>> UIdaho.
>>
>> ~em
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:16 PM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
>> relearning
>>
>> Emily, I much appreciated your links to the Science Daily articles
>> and
>> the Usha Goswami article. I learned a lot. Thanks much, and please
>> keep links like this coming! These are areas I know I would like to
>> learn much more about. A) On astrocytes etc.: If you had to put
>> together a crash course for CHAT-oriented researchers on
>> neuroscience,
>> what authors, books, articles etc. come to mind that you would draw
>> from? B) As for the overview Goswami offers in her 2006 article
>> regarding 1) what neuroscience actually is discovering about learning
>> processes and how they might apply to the classroom and 2) what
>> neuromyths are emerging along with perhaps other hazards of the
>> commercialization of neuroeducation knowledge ... where is more of
>> this kind of discussion taking place these days?
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Em-- And I googled Goswami neuromyths. Also very
>>> enlightening.
>>> Goswami did early work with Ann Brown, former collaborator with us
>>> at LCHC.
>>>
>>> Now if we go back a step and look at the people who created the
>>> label of
>>> learning sciences, and their backgrounds, the shift from
>>> "developmental
>>> psychology" to developmental sciences, the appearance recently of
>>> the
>>> handbook of cultural developmental science, ......... what a
>>> tempest! Must
>>> be a teapot in there somewhere. Simultaneous, fractilated paradigm
>>> shifts?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have the luxury of being able to organize a science
>>> studies
>>> interrogation of these movements? Seems really worthwhile.
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Duvall, Emily <emily@uidaho.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Mike... :-)
>>>> In general I like Goswami's work; I find her discussion of
>>>> neuromyths compelling and have had my grad students do additional
>>>> research on some of them. I am also particularly interested in ways
>>>> to
>>>> try to negotiate across different fields. I've attached my favorite
>>>> Goswami and a nice intro to neuroeducation.
>>>> As a side note: Monica (Hansen, who frequently shows up on the
>>>> list serve and is one of my doc students) and I took a neuroscience
>>>> journal club/ seminar last spring and found ourselves trying to
>>>> make
>>>> sense of the work that is done with regard to education. We are
>>>> taking
>>>> another seminar right now and some of the folks who were in last
>>>> year's
>>>> class are presenting journal articles in their field, but are
>>>> trying to
>>>> make the links to human experience, particularly education. It's
>>>> been
>>>> interesting to discover how open minded the students and faculty
>>>> are...
>>>> one of the computational neuroscience faculty has taken up some
>>>> Vygotsky
>>>> reading as well as neuroeducation... of course Luria's work is a
>>>> door
>>>> opener and a point of mutual interest.
>>>> ~em
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:41 AM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
>>>> relearning
>>>>
>>>> No one picked up on your interest in neuroeducation, Emily. A lot
>>>> of
>>>> what I
>>>> read in this area strikes me as almost entirely without any
>>>> appreciation
>>>> of
>>>> education, or human experience, as a culturally mediated, co-
>>>> constructed
>>>> process. Do you have a favorite general ref you could point us to
>>>> that
>>>> you
>>>> resonate to??
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Duvall, Emily <emily@uidaho.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I thought some of you might one or both of these article summaries
>>>>> interesting. The first really speaks to the new field of
>>>> neuroeducation
>>>>> with regard to cellular learning... the nice thing about the
>>>>> summary
>>>> is
>>>>> it gives you an overview of learning at the cellular basis... very
>>>> clear
>>>>> and easy to understand. Plus an introduction to astrocytes... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The second piece actually discusses re-learning, which has been a
>>>> topic
>>>>> lately.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I personally find so interesting is the role of experience in
>>>>> learning and relearning... I found myself thinking back to Shirley
>>>> Brice
>>>>> Heath's work... it would be fun to go back to her work and look at
>>>>> her
>>>>> study through a neuroeducation lens.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Star-shaped Cells In Brain Help With Learning
>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090911132907.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Every movement and every thought requires the passing of specific
>>>>> information between networks of nerve cells. To improve a skill or
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn something new entails more efficient or a greater number of
>>>>> cell
>>>>> contacts. Scientists can now show that certain cells in the brain
>>>>> --
>>>> the
>>>>> astrocytes -- actively influence this information exchange.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Forgotten But Not Gone: How The Brain Re-learns
>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081117110834.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to our ability to learn and to remember, we can perform
>>>>> tasks
>>>>> that other living things can not even dream of. However, we are
>>>>> only
>>>>> just beginning to get the gist of what really goes on in the brain
>>>> when
>>>>> it learns or forgets something. What we do know is that changes in
>>>>> the
>>>>> contacts between nerve cells play an important role. But can these
>>>>> structural changes account for that well-known phenomenon that it
>>>>> is
>>>>> much easier to re-learn something that was forgotten than to learn
>>>>> something completely new?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ~em
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Emily Duvall, PhD
>>>>> Assistant Professor Curriculum & Instruction
>>>>> University of Idaho, Coeur d'Alene
>>>>> 1000 W. Hubbard Suite 242 | Coeur d'Alene, ID 83814
>>>>> T 208 292 2512 | F 208 667 5275 emily@uidaho.edu |
>>>>> www.cda.uidaho.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> He only earns his freedom and his life, who takes them every day
>>>>> by
>>>>> storm.
>>>>> -- Johann Wolfgang Goethe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
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>> <howard-
>> jones
>> .pdf
>>>
>> <
>> neuroeducation
>> .pdf
>>> <sharp_et_al_2.pdf>_______________________________________________
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