Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and Trotsky (question)

From: Michalis Kontopodis <michalis.kontopodis who-is-at>
Date: Wed Nov 12 2008 - 00:00:34 PST

I think I can contribute to this discussion:

there is a German Vygotsky scholar, Peter Keiler who did extensive
research and in his book:

sees a Nietzschean influence on Vygotsky and examines the use of
citations of Trotsky in the Psychology of Art.

Keiler claims that it was because of these ideological influences that
the Psychology of Art which was initially accepted for publication,
was not published after Trotsky's views were officialy rejected
(Conference of the Communist Party in 1925). It was also because of
this reason that Vygotsky's book Educational Psychology was not
published with the State Publisher in 1924/1925 but with the Publisher
'Workers of Education' in 1926 (I am not sure about the translation of
the names of the Publishers and I do not have the originals now).

I am writing about these issues and I think Veresov has done also work
about this issue in English, so for sure there is/will be some more
material in the future for the English-speaking audience.

with friendly regards,

Michalis Kontopodis

research associate
humboldt university berlin
tel.: +49 (0) 30 2093 3716
fax.: +49 (0) 30 2093 3739

On 12.11.2008, at 00:24, Achilles Delari Junior wrote:

> David,
> Thank you very much...
> I have suspected that was not only an opportunistic relation,
> but you give us many more reasons to confirm my suspects...
> Despite somebody that had that kind of only strictly political
> acceptance goals, Trotsky was then the obvious reference to
> quote too - and this I didn't knew until your explanation. Well,
> all we are real persons, with our contradictions, including
> moral and political dilemmas - but, even so, I resist to wonder
> Vygotsky's intentions only in therms of simple conveniences or
> blind following of a moment trend or fashion. I don't know...
> All we are human, "nothing of human will be strange to us"...
> But if you said:
> "I think the real affinity between Trotsky and Vygotsky (and even
> more,
> between Trotsky and Luria) is to be found a little deeper. It's not
> something that he would have left on the surface, and even if he had,
> it would have been expunged for obvious reasons."
> And then you empower my feeling that there was something
> beyond convenience in that dialog.
> Thank you, again.
> Achilles
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:50:48 -0800
>> From:
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and Trotsky (question)
>> To:
>> Dear Achilles:
>> I think everybody is right all around. The problem is that Vygotsky
>> was not a party member, and the Bolshevik Party tended to keep its
>> disagreements to itself until fairly late. Remember that although
>> Pedagogical Psychology was publishedi n 1926, most of it was
>> written earlier for teaching purposes.
>> By 1926, Lenin was dead, and Trotsky was already in opposition.
>> Stalin, however, was not well known outside the party; he'd been
>> not particularly distinguished editor of Pravda, and written (with
>> Lenin's help) a book on the nationalities question, but that was
>> about it.
>> Trotsky, on the other hand, was extremely well known as the man who
>> had led the first unsuccessful Soviet in 1905, written prolifically
>> on art, literature, science, and the history he had helped to make.
>> Popularly, he was the man perceived to have almost single-handedly
>> created the Red Army and saved the USSR during the civil war. He
>> was the obvious person to quote, particularly if you were Jewish,
>> kind of intellectual, and inclinded to cross-disciplinary
>> intellectual interests.
>> I think the real affinity between Trotsky and Vygotsky (and even
>> more, between Trotsky and Luria) is to be found a little deeper.
>> It's not something that he would have left on the surface, and even
>> if he had, it would have been expunged for obvious reasons.
>> Nevertheless, it's really there, particularly in the idea of
>> permanent revolution, where development consists not of the Stalin
>> like mechanical replication of stages, but in the Trotsky like
>> compression of stages, where "the first shall be last" and the
>> "rock that was despised by the builders shall be the cornerstone".
>> David Kellogg
>> Seoul National University of Education
>> .
>> --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Achilles Delari Junior <
>> > wrote:
>> From: Achilles Delari Junior <>
>> Subject: [xmca] Vygotsky and Trotsky (question)
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <>
>> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 2:39 PM
>> Greetings,
>> It´s only a simple question,
>> Alex Kozulin (1990, Vygotsky: a biography of ideas) in his chapter
>> about
>> "Pedagogical Psychology", see this book almost like a non-vygotskyan
>> work.
>> I will not touch the problem of pavlovian trends of Vygotsky at
>> this time.
>> But, about Trotsky, Kozulin think that Vygotsky quotes him only as
>> a political
>> mean to be accepted in official marxist scene of the time, and
>> nothing really
>> conceptually relevant. But, I had asked for myself, since 1994 when
>> I have
>> read Kozulin excellent book: why then Trotsky? Why not Lenin or
>> Stalin him-
>> self. Is not Pedagogical psychology a book published at 1926? Tom
>> Bottomore
>> said that since 1923, Trotsky was leading opposition movements
>> against so-
>> viet bureaucracy, what culminate with his expulsion from USSR in
>> 1929 by
>> Stalin. Many years after read Kozulin's book, Vygostky's Pedagogical
>> Psycho-
>> logy was published in Portuguese... I don't know exactly what
>> happens after
>> with his political trends, but I feel that his quotations seems to
>> be not so
>> artificial, nor conveniently "official".
>> What do you think about?
>> Thank you, very much. It's only to share a simple historical doubt.
>> Best wishes.
>> Achilles
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o site de
>> relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
>> http://
>> www
>> .amigosdomessenger
>> .com.br_______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS
> para o Messenger! É GRÁTIS!
> xmca mailing list

xmca mailing list
Received on Wed Nov 12 00:02:08 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Dec 01 2008 - 12:52:40 PST