Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics [image] of disease" (Roman Luria)

From: Mike Cole <lchcmike who-is-at gmail.com>
Date: Thu Oct 30 2008 - 09:18:16 PDT

Achilles, Bela, Everyone.

We Anglophones are SO grateful that you take the time to write in our
language
that there is never a need even to dream of apologizing. if you want to see
really terrible language, check out my written Russian which I type in Latin

letters. A nightmare, as the Russians might say. :-)

It is equally great when some of us actually know enough of a foreign
language
to reduce our common ignorance: French, German, Korean, etc.

mike

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Oh... It's wonderful, thank you very much.
> Do you think that "internal image of disease" from R.A.Luria can be related
> to the later approach of A.R. Luria in his "Romantic Science" followed by
> Sacks (as he said in "A leg to stand on") , and expressed in Luria's works,
> like "The mind of a mnemonist" and "The man with a shattered world"? Can I
> try to combine these contributions in a same coherent theoretical framework
> or many adjusts must be made? Sorry about my simple questions, but they are
> important to me at this moment and I'm trying to learn and to construct...
> Your contribution has been very important and elucidative. Sorry about my
> English too, my writing must sounds very rough, but I can understand you
> very well, and for this reason I write even so. Thank you for all.
> Большое спасибо.
> Achilles.
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:54:39 +0200
> > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics [image] of disease" (Roman Luria)
> >
> > I think the cultural-historical approach may be relevant for valeology,
> but
> > it depends on the researcher. I'll ask a Russian friend for texts in
> > valeology
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Oh, thank you,
> > >
> > > If you suggest something of the more important texts even in Russian, I
> can
> > > try to provide
> > > a translation to Portuguese. Do you think that valeology can be
> > > epistemologicaly
> > > compatible with a historical-cultural approach?
> > > Thank you very much.
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:51:22 +0200
> > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics [image] of disease" (Roman
> Luria)
> > > >
> > > > Some people in Russia are using this term: "internal image of health"
> in
> > > the
> > > > context of rather new trend of research- valeology, but I do not know
> if
> > > > there is anything translated.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:22 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting, Bella,
> > > > > I already was preferring "imagem" in Portuguese too,
> > > > > despite the translation of Asmolov's "Vygostky today:
> > > > > on the verge of non-classical psychology" had wrote
> > > > > "internal picture of disease" (Asmolov, 1988, p. 52)...
> > > > > And about "internal image of health"? What do you
> > > > > indicate to us?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you, very much, for your attention and help.
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:54:11 +0200
> > > > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics [image] of disease" (Roman
> > > Luria)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are right, Achilles, both image and picture are possible
> > > translations
> > > > > of
> > > > > > "kartina", but I think image is more relevant;
> > > > > > As to dynamics- it depends of the context.
> > > > > > BKF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bella,
> > > > > > > Тhank you very much... I will search for the book and papers
> > > quoting
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > "Vnutrennyaya kartyna bolezny"... Can we translate "kartyna" as
> > > "image"
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > "picture" too?
> > > > > > > I liked "dynamics", because includes movement of this
> "kartyna"...
> > > but
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > you think to be
> > > > > > > the best option? Thank you for all.
> > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:05:32 +0200
> > > > > > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics of disease" (Luria
> apud
> > > > > > > Zeignarnik)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Лурия P. А*. Внутренняя картина болезни и патогенные
> > > заболевания.
> > > > > М.,
> > > > > > > 1944.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I do not have any information about it's availiability. I
> made an
> > > > > effort
> > > > > > > via
> > > > > > > > google.ru but could not find. May be in Moscow it would be
> > > possible
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > find,
> > > > > > > > but I am in Jerusalem now.
> > > > > > > > Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you, Bella,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I was thinking that "R.A" was a typographic mistake...
> Mistake
> > > of
> > > > > mine.
> > > > > > > > > But, can you tell me the work quoted by Zeigarnik, and say
> > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > about it's availability? And, about this reference:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > LURIA, A.R. Internal description of illness and pathogenic
> > > > > > > diseases.Moscow,
> > > > > > > > > 1944.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's realy from Alexander Romanovich? There is means to
> obtain
> > > it?
> > > > > Can
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > help
> > > > > > > > > me, telling me the Russian title?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for your patience and help.
> > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:56:11 +0200
> > > > > > > > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Internal dynamics of disease" (Luria
> > > apud
> > > > > > > > > Zeignarnik)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Roman Albertovich Luria was the father of Alexander
> > > Romanovich
> > > > > Luria.
> > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > was R.A. Who R. A. Luria introduced the concept of
> "internal
> > > > > dynamics
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > disease," but it is often mistakenly cited (both in
> English
> > > and
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > Russian)
> > > > > > > > > > as belonging to his famous son.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:28 AM, delari <delari@uol.com.br
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Greetings for all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Please, can you give me a little help with a Luria's
> book?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bluma V. Zeigarnik quotes Luria's concept of "internal
> > > dynamics
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > disease"
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "The well-known Soviet therapist R. A. Luriya
> introduced
> > > the
> > > > > > > concept of
> > > > > > > > > > > "internal dynamics of disease," by which he means "all
> that
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > patient experiences and feels, the entire aggregate of
> his
> > > > > > > sensations,
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > only local sensations due to his illness but also his
> > > general
> > > > > > > feeling
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > himself, his self-observation, how he represents his
> > > illness to
> > > > > > > himself
> > > > > > > > > > > (Withrespect to its causes), all that which is linked
> with
> > > > > > > approaching
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > physician - that entire internal world of the patient,
> > > which
> > > > > > > consists
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > very complex combinations of perceptions and
> sensations,
> > > > > emotions,
> > > > > > > > > affects,
> > > > > > > > > > > conflicts, mental feelings, and trauma." He indicated
> that
> > > the
> > > > > > > behavior
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > mental processes of the individual are changed at the
> very
> > > > > moment
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > he
> > > > > > > > > > > learns about his illness."(ZEIGARNIK, 1972, P.133)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ZEIGARNIK, B. V. Experimental Abnormal psychology [In
> fact:
> > > > > > > "Vvedenie v
> > > > > > > > > > > patopsikhologiyu" = "Introduction to Pathopsychology"].
> > > Chapter
> > > > > 6 -
> > > > > > > > > > > Personality disturbances in the mentally ill. New York,
> > > London:
> > > > > > > Plenum
> > > > > > > > > > > Press. 1972. p. 109-136. [I attached a copy of the
> > > chapter]
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > She don´t give the date of the quotation, there are 8
> > > titles by
> > > > > > > Luria
> > > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > > her bibliography. And I believe that the quoted about
> > > "internal
> > > > > > > > > dynamics of
> > > > > > > > > > > disease" must be this:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > LURIA, A.R. Internal description of illness and
> pathogenic
> > > > > > > diseases.
> > > > > > > > > > > Moscow, 1944.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Is there any means to legally obtain a payed or free
> copy
> > > from
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > book,
> > > > > > > > > > > even most probably in Russian?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Can you help me?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, very much, for your attention and patience.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe
> > > EMOTICONS
> > > > > > > para o
> > > > > > > > > Messenger! É GRÁTIS!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe
> EMOTICONS
> > > > > para o
> > > > > > > Messenger! É GRÁTIS!
> > > > > > > http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o site de
> > > > > relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Confira vídeos com notícias do NY Times, gols direto do Lance,
> > > videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video!
> > > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Receba GRÁTIS as mensagens do Messenger no seu celular quando você estiver
> offline. Conheça o MSN Mobile!
> http://mobile.live.com/signup/signup2.aspx?lc=pt-br
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>

_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Received on Thu Oct 30 09:20:48 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Fri Sep 18 2009 - 07:30:00 PDT