Re: [xmca] neoformation / zpd

From: Elinami Swai <swaiev who-is-at>
Date: Sun Feb 10 2008 - 05:55:14 PST

I also like the way people are making distinction btn learning and
development.But must one loose some skills as he/she develops? Can we
say, those skills are just being peripherised, and can still be used
when needed? (one does not forget a certain skill or how he/she used
to think, just by knowing it in a different way). Development can then
be adding new skills and learning, transforming those skills. ZPD can
be seen more clearly on development part -- the difference between
what one knew and what is now known. But in learning, how a skill was
transformed--the difference might not be very clear.

On 2/9/08, Worthen, Helena Harlow <> wrote:
> I like Andy's way of making a distinction between "learning" and "development."
> I'd venture that "development" is more likely to occur in a zpd-rich context.
> Michael Glassman mentions the "individualist box." What if we try using this distinction -- development is "a step foward that entails restructuring/losing some abilities while gaining others, while "learning" is adding skills -- doesn't that get us out of the box?
> Helena
> ________________________________________
> From: [] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden []
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:10 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] neoformation / zpd
> "Listening" to what everyone is saying about zpd, it seems that people see
> zpd as relevant to learning in general, and not tied to development. Is
> this true?
> If I ask myself what it is that make a step forward *development* rather
> than *learning*, then I'd say it's a step forward that entails *losing*
> some abilities while acquiring new ones, whereas learning means just adding
> new skills., not losing them Whenever a development first takes place, that
> is to say we have a *re*-structuring taking place, then necessarily every
> other aspect of a person's activity and their relations to others around
> them has to change / restructure as well. That's the nature of structure,
> after all. So what was learnt has to grow over into other areas of
> activity. But isn't this process an important aspect of the concept of zpd?
> Or is that just incidental? Given that development is definitively and in a
> much more profound way, something that is driven by the demands and
> expectations of others and the person's relation to others, it would seem
> that zpd is a concept which ought to have special significance for
> development, not just learning.
> How do people see the concept of zpd in relation to *development*
> specifically?
> Andy
> At 02:55 PM 8/02/2008 -0800, you wrote:
> >Yes, XMCA is a zoped, though it can also be a confessional and a tribunal
> >too. I think the main reason why XMCA is a zoped and the confessional and
> >tribunal are not is that the latter have an EVALUATIVE rather than a
> >DEVELOPMENTAL function. So the proper function of a confessional and a
> >tribunal (and SOME forms of teaching) is ASSESSMENT rather than LEARNING.
> >That's what I meant about having our backs to the future.
> >
> > Many of the on-line presentations (Mike's, Pentti Hakarainnen's, and of
> > course the Seoul presentations) have to do with a text called "Problem of
> > Age" in Volume Five of the Collected Works, eric. In it, LSV really does
> > describe disappearing neoformations ("autonomous speech" and "negativism"
> > are mentioned, and that's why Dr. Subbotsky talks about negativism in his
> > remarks at the on-line seminar). And of course in Chapter Five and Six of
> > Thinking and Speech he also talks about everyday concepts "blazing a
> > trail" for scientific concepts.
> >
> > That's for the tribunal. Now for the confessional part! My statement
> > that the "Goliath" was developmentally inert but the "Feast of
> > Belshazzar" is somehow catalytic was simply wrong: I think they were BOTH
> > catalytic, but only ontogenetically. Neither one was catalytic
> > socioculturally; neither one really had a future with other painters. (I
> > certainly don't want to paint bug-eyed Belshazzars with bunches of
> > bananas on the ends of their arms.)
> >
> > An example of a socioculturally catalytic form of painting would be the
> > small devotional miniatures which Elsheimer did. They were so small
> > people wouldn't pay good prices for them, and Elsheimer died of
> > starvation with his whole family. His art prefigured the slightly larger
> > devotional works that made Poussin's fortune, and even today it survives
> > in cameo art.
> >
> > (I even knew a guy in Paris who survived by frequenting auctions where
> > they would calculate how much money you got per square inch for your last
> > canvas and then start bidding with that price for your next one. He'd
> > show up with a tiny canvas and bid the price up ridiculously high, and
> > then come the next week with an ENORMOUS one!)
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Seoul National University of Education
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
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> >_______________________________________________
> >xmca mailing list
> >
> >
> Andy Blunden : tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
> mobile 0409 358 651
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Dr. Elinami Swai
Womens' and Gender Studies
University Hall 4220-A
The University of Toledo
Toledo, OH, 43606
xmca mailing list
Received on Sun Feb 10 05:57 PST 2008

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