Re: [xmca] Bauman on Identity

From: mariasucupiralins <mariasucupiralins who-is-at terra.com.br>
Date: Sun Nov 25 2007 - 16:04:40 PST

De:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu

Para:"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

Cpia:

Data:Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:30:30 +0100 (CET)

Assunto:Re: [xmca] Bauman on Identity

it is said that the first person to write about his own self, and to have discovered his identity is Agostinho from Hippona when he wrote his Confessions. He really knew his identity.
maria

 "Identity as such is a modern invention. To say that modernity led to
> the `disembedding of identity, or that it rendered the
> identity `unencumbered, is to assert a pleonasm, since at no time did
> identity `become a problem; it was a `problem from its birth - was born as a
> problem (that is, as something one needs do something about - as a task), could
> exist only as a problem; it was a problem, and thus ready to be born, precisely
> because of that experience of under-determination and free-floatingness which
> came to be articulated ex post facto as `disembeddedment. ... One thinks of
> identity whenever one is not sure of where one belongs; that is, one is not
> sure how to place oneself among the evident variety of behavioural styles and
> patterns, and how to make sure that people around would accept this placement
> as right and proper, so that both sides would know how to go on in each others
> presence. `Identity is a name given to the escape sought from that
> uncertainty. Hence `identity, though ostensibly a noun, behaves like a verb,
> albeit a strange one to be sized as an attribute of a material entity, identity
> has the ontological status of a project and a postulate. ... Identity entered
> modern mind and practice dressed from the start as an individual task. It was
> up to the individual to find escape from uncertainty. Not for the first and not
> for the last time, socially created problems were to be resolved by individual
> efforts, and collective maladies healed by private medicine." (Zygmunt
> Bauman, "From Pilgrim to Tourist - or a Short History of Identity"; Hall,
> Stuart & Paul du Gay (eds.). Questions of Cultural Identity. London: Sage, 1996)
>
>
>
>
> On 2007-11-23, at 20:31, Paul Dillon wrote:
> > The citation of James Baldwin, a black homosexual, provides a limit case of
> society's imposition of "identity". Things are clearer on the boundaries.
> >
> > An earlier post proposed the "identity" is a post-modern occidental
> preoccupation but this mistakes language and meta-language. Nobody ever talked
> about "oxygen" before Priestley isolated it while looking for de-phlogistinated
> air.
> >
> > Lacking in identity? Let's see, are you an " atheist, baptist, hindu, or
> jew, a buddhist, a catholic, or jain"? Do you cringe, grow enraged, or feel
> exhalted upon hearing the "Star Spangled Banner" or the "International"?
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Mike Cole wrote:
> > In red below is my attempt at translation of a note from Boris Mescheryakov
> > re identity and personality in LSV. Boris, whose work you can read in the
> > Companion to Vygotsky and elsewhere
> > was kind enough to look up relevant passages from LSV. I probably have not
> > done the translation justice, but most all of this exists in English and
> > others more knowledgeable of Russian
> > can straighten things out.
> >
> > It appears were are dealing with issues that are not usefully reduced to
> > either or....... again.
> > mike
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Boris Meshcheryakov < borlogic@orexovo.net>
> > Date: Nov 23, 2007 12:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?
> > To: Mike Cole
> >
> >
> > —д€ав‚вƒй, Mike.
> > Ÿо-видимомƒ, п€ав‹ ‚е, к‚о ‡и‚ае‚, ‡‚о
> п€облема иден‚и‡но‚и,
> > иден‚и„ика†ии, амооп€еделени (а
> моде‚е€мина†ии) не б‹ли амо‚о‚елŒн‹м
> > п€едме‚ом €азм‹ˆлений и иледований
> ’‹го‚кого. œогƒ лиˆŒ п€едложи‚Œ
> > неко‚е его в‹каз‹вани о €азви‚ии
> ли‡но‚и и амоознании (‚ƒ взŒ
> > ’‹го‚кий ‡е‚ко опи‹вал):
> >
> > Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity, identification,
> > self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
> > investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his statements
> > on the development of personality and self consciousness (this connection
> > Vygotsky clearly did describe)
> >
> >
> > «...о‚ли‡ие €ебенка о‚ под€о‚ка може‚
> б‹‚Œ лƒ‡ˆе вего в‹€ажено положением
> > “егел, ко‚о€‹й €азли‡ал ве‰и в ебе и
> ве‰и дл еб. žн гово€ил, ‡‚о ве
> > ве‰и ƒ‚Œ на‡ала в ебе, но на ‚ом дело
> не о‚анавливае‚ и в п€о†ее
> > €азви‚и ве‰Œ п€ев€а‰ае‚ в ве‰Œ дл
> еб. Так, гово€ил он, ‡еловек в ебе
> > е‚Œ €ебенок, зада‡а ко‚о€ого о‚ои‚ не в
> ‚ом, ‡‚об‹ о‚ава‚Œ в ‚ом
> > аб‚€ак‚ном и не€азви‚ом "в ебе", а в ‚ом,
> ‡‚об‹ ‚а‚Œ ‚акже и дл еб
> > ‚ем, ‡ем он пока е‚Œ лиˆŒ в ебе, именно
> ‚а‚Œ вободн‹м и €азƒмн‹м
> > ƒ‰е‚вом. ’о‚ ‚о п€ев€а‰ение €ебенка из
> ‡еловека в ебе в под€о‚ка €“
> > ‡еловека дл еб €“ и о‚авле‚ главное
> оде€жание вего к€изиа
> > пе€е…одного воз€а‚а. Э‚о е‚Œ по…а
> оз€евани ли‡но‚и и ми€овозз€ени...»
> > (Ÿедологи под€о‚ка, Соб€. о‡., ‚. 4, . 199).
> >
> > "the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
> > Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things for
> > oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
> > matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development the
> > thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
> > himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
> > undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for himself in
> > a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become a free
> > and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an adult
> > (man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
> > constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this transitional age.
> > It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view (Pedology of
> > the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)
> >
> > "›и‡но‚Œ ‚анови‚ дл еб ‚ем, ‡‚о она
> е‚Œ в ебе, ‡е€ез ‚о, ‡‚о она
> > п€едŠвле‚ дл д€ƒги…. Э‚о и е‚Œ
> п€о†е ‚ановлени ли‡но‚и" (˜‚о€и
> > €азви‚и ’ŸФ, Соб€. о‡., ‚. 3, . 144). (A) Personality
> becomes for
> > itself, when it has previously been in itself, through what it manifests
> > through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3, p. 144)
> >
> > ž‡енŒ важное добавление из "˜‚о€ии €а
> зви‚и ’ŸФ": "The following addition
> > from same work is very important:
> >
> > «”ж. ‘олдƒин п€аведливо о‚ме‚ил, ‡‚о
> пон‚ие о "" €азвивае‚ ƒ €ебенка из
> > пон‚и о д€ƒги…. Ÿон‚ие «ли‡но‚Œ» е‚Œ,
> ‚.о., о†иалŒное, о‚€аженное
> > пон‚ие, ‚€о‰ее на онове ‚ого, ‡‚о
> €ебенок п€имене‚ по о‚ноˆениŽ к
> > амомƒ ебе ‚е п€ием‹ п€ипооблени,
> ко‚е он п€имене‚ по о‚ноˆениŽ к
> > д€ƒгим. ’о‚ по‡емƒ можно каза‚Œ, ‡‚о
> ли‡но‚Œ е‚Œ о†иалŒное в на» (‚.
> > 3, . 324/ жи€н. ˆ€и„‚ мой €“ ‘.œ.).
> >
> > James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a child
> > from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the social,
> > reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child uses in
> > relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
> > relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that personality
> > is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)
> >
> >
> >
> > ˜з "Ÿи…ологи‡екого лова€" ’а€ˆав‹ и
> ’‹го‚кого (1931) From Varshava and
> > Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:
> >
> > "˜ден‚и„ика†и (Ф€ейд) - о‚ожде‚вление,
> ƒподобление еб д€ƒгой ли‡но‚и,
> > п€ипи‹вание ебе п€изнаков
> оп€еделенного ‡еловека. ˜ден‚и„ика†и иг€а
> е‚
> > ог€омнƒŽ €олŒ в новидени…, в ‚во€‡е‚ве,
> в м凂а…. Ÿи…ологи‡екий м‹л
> > ˜. води‚ к €аˆи€ениŽ к€ƒга пе€ежива
> ний, к обога‰ениŽ внƒ‚€еннего
> > оп‹‚а".
> >
> > Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to another
> > personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a specific
> > person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
> > creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to the
> > widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the enrichment of
> > innner life.
> >
> > "›и‡но‚Œ - ‚е€мин, озна‡аŽ‰ий един‚во и
> индивидƒалŒно‚Œ ве… жизненн‹… и
> > пи…ологи‡еки… п€овлений ‡еловека;
> ‡еловек, ознаŽ‰ий ам еб как
> > оп€еделенное индивидƒалŒное един‚во и
> ‚ожде‚во во ве… п€о†еа…
> > изменени, п€ои…од‰и… в о€ганизме и
> пи…ике, е‚Œ ли‡но‚Œ. ‘олезнŒ ›.
> > в‹€ажае‚ в €ападе ‚ого един‚ва"
> >
> > Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all everyday
> > life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man) accepting
> > himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of change
> > that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
> > Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this unity.
> >
> > ˜ е‰е: ’ "Ÿи…ологии икƒ‚ва" в главе о "“а
> мле‚е" ’‹го‚кий ак†ен‚и€ƒе‚
> > пон‚ие "в‚о€ого €ождени" . ’ €або‚а… ..
> ›еон‚Œева ‚оже в‚€е‡ае‚ ‚о‚
> > ‚е€мин в взи  €азви‚ием амоознани в
> под€о‚ковом воз€а‚е. And also:
> > In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates the
> > concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also encounters
> > this term in connection with the development of selfconsciousness during
> > adolescence.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > С ƒважением,
> >
> > ‘.œ. mailto:borlogic@orexovo.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Sun Nov 25 16:06 PST 2007

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