Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?

From: Mike Cole <lchcmike who-is-at gmail.com>
Date: Fri Nov 23 2007 - 10:56:30 PST

Hi tony-
Ah-- The joys of computer-mediated communication.
So, for those who cannot read all the YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYs in my message.

The English is my seat of the pants translation of several passages from LSV
identified by Boris Mescheryakov as relevant
to the identity/personality thread. My take on the package is that they
enrich our discussion, but UUUUUUUUUU all will
have to decide for yourselves. And someone who knows Russian better than I
might help with the translations if they can
see cyrrillic in their email.

mike

On Nov 23, 2007 9:59 AM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu> wrote:

> Those who have this book (including some xmca folk with chapters in it)
> might find relevance in this chapter:
>
> Duarte, Newton. "Education as Mediation between the Individual's Everyday
> Life and the Historical Construction of Society and Culture by Humankind."
> In Critical Perspectives on Activity: Explorations across Education, Work,
> and Everyday Life, edited by Peter H. Sawchuk, Newton Duarte and i Mohamed
> Elhammoum, 211-37: Cambridge University Press, 2006.
>
> http://worldcat.org/oclc/60796098
>
> Mike, I get xmca only in text (not html). I assume that's the same for
> everybody: If I post a message using html, a text-only message is
> distributed.
>
> That means nobody will see red or other colors, and most people will not
> see non-Roman (e.g., Russian) characters.
>
> That's why, when I want to post something that requires more than just
> plain ASCII text, I sometimes post it on one of my blogs, and then send
> xmca a message with the link and a text-only version of what people would
> find there.
>
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007,
> Mike Cole wrote:
>
> > In red below is my attempt at translation of a note from Boris
> Mescheryakov
> re identity and personality in LSV. Boris, whose work you can read in the
> Companion to Vygotsky and elsewhere
> was kind enough to look up relevant passages from LSV. I probably have not
> done the translation justice, but most all of this exists in English and
> others more knowledgeable of Russian
> can straighten things out.
>
> It appears were are dealing with issues that are not usefully reduced to
> either or....... again.
> mike
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Boris Meshcheryakov < borlogic@orexovo.net>
> Date: Nov 23, 2007 12:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?
> To: Mike Cole <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
>
> , Mike.
> -, , ,
> ,
> ,
> ()
>
>
> .
>
> (
> ):
>
> Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity,
> identification,
> self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
> investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his
> statements
> on the development of personality and self consciousness (this connection
> Vygotsky clearly did describe)
>
>
> ...
>
> ,
> . ,
> ,
>
>
> . , ,
> ,
> ,
> " ",
> ,
> , ,
>
> .
>
>
>
> .
> ...
> ( , . ., . 4, .
> 199).
>
> "the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
> Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things for
> oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
> matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development the
> thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
> himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
> undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for himself
> in
> a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become a
> free
> and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an adult
> (man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
> constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this transitional
> age.
> It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view (Pedology
> of
> the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)
>
> " ,
> , ,
> .
> " (
> , . ., . 3, . 144). (A)
> Personality becomes for
> itself, when it has previously been in itself, through what it
> manifests
> through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3, p. 144)
>
> "
> ": "The following addition
> from same work is very important:
>
> . ,
> ""
> .
> , .., ,
> , ,
>
> ,
>
> . ,
> (.
> 3, . 324/ . ..).
>
> James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a child
> from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the social,
> reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child uses
> in
> relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
> relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that personality
> is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)
>
>
>
> " "
> (1931) From Varshava and
> Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:
>
> " () - ,
> ,
>
> .
>
> ,
> , .
>
> .
> ,
> ".
>
> Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to
> another
> personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a specific
> person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
> creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to the
> widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the enrichment
> of
> innner life.
>
> " - ,
>
> ;
> ,
>
>
> ,
> , . .
> "
>
> Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all
> everyday
> life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man) accepting
> himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of
> change
> that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
> Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this unity.
>
> : " "
> ""
> " " . ..
>
>
> . And also:
> In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates the
> concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also encounters
> this term in connection with the development of selfconsciousness during
> adolescence.
>
>
> --
>
> ,
>
> .. mailto:borlogic@orexovo.net<
> borlogic@orexovo.net>
>
> Tony Whitson
> UD School of Education
> NEWARK DE 19716
>
> twhitson@udel.edu
> _______________________________
>
> "those who fail to reread
> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>
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Received on Fri Nov 23 10:58 PST 2007

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