Re: [xmca] On Roth's "On Mediation"

From: <ERIC.RAMBERG who-is-at>
Date: Wed Oct 24 2007 - 12:59:57 PDT

Yes, Michael, I understand that operations are within a given context and
that they arise from the context of actions upon the environment. However,
the repetetive operation of speaking and writing can develop into more
elaborate and saliant activities that move beyond that given context.
Beyond actions and operations are goal directed activities (i.e. writing a
novel, builiding a house, making a "how-to" video for shoe tying). You
touch on goal directed activities in the article but I am left empty
handed after the read. i can't envision the direction you choose to


                      Roth To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <>
                      <> cc:
                      Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca] On Roth's "On Mediation"
                      10/24/2007 01:29
                      Please respond
                      to "eXtended
                      Mind, Culture,

Hi Eric,
thanks for your note.

> How does the immediacy of operations develop into the mediated
> actions of a goal directed activity?

Operations do not "Develop" into mediated actions, they are produced
in response to current conditions, which include the present state of
the action. I am thinking about talking in everyday situations as a
paradigm. We don't go and search for words, they seem to appear in
our mouths. The type of words is a function of the current state,
including what we have produced thus far, and we stop not BECAUSE of
grammatical rules but because of a stop order (remember, most people
and especially children don't know formal grammar and yet produce
grammatical sentences), which tells us that what we have produced is
somehow complete. We can make salient operations, which usually
happens when something goes wrong, and the reverse happens as we
become familiar with actions that they disappear from our
consciousness. When this happens precisely normally is not available
to consciousness, because it precisely involves the disappearance of
being conscious of the action. (I once studied it when I was teaching
in Newfoundland, taking also a course, and doing a study of tying
shoe laces with a child that had trisomy 21. What are operations to
us had to be made explicit, involving something like 18 steps in my
case. With time, 2 actions combined, leading to the disappearance
[becoming operations] of its predecessors)

On 24-Oct-07, at 9:25 AM, wrote:


Firstoff: great read! I so enjoy an article that places a "real-world"
context for the reader to negotiate the scholarly "words". The real-
context being the fish hatchery. Also, for once I believe I have a firm
grasp on how Leontiev was negotiating the avenue of activities,
actions and
operations. Your examples clearly indicate the differences and I am
to better understand the history and development of Cultural-Historical
theory as a result of your article. Thank you. Here is my difficulty.
Perhaps it is in the paper and I am not deciphering it correctly,
not. How does the immediacy of operations develop into the mediated
actions of a goal directed activity? Where is the explanation of the
process that allows actions to become operations? Vygotsky viewed the
transition of speaking aloud to problem solving to inner speech for
solving as the process. Valsiner similar but more intricate in his
explanations. The difference obviously being that Valsiner has enjoyed
much more time in the research arena. Using your example of learning
to feed the fish could you possibly walk me through your thoughts on how
you transitioned from using the scoop as a mediating device to the point
where feeding the fish was an operation and you were able to move
into an
'everydayness' of feeding fish.


xmca mailing list

xmca mailing list

xmca mailing list
Received on Wed Oct 24 13:02 PDT 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Nov 20 2007 - 14:25:43 PST