Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT

Yep, that is a great idea, Steve.
I'll bet there is a web-based mechanism for helping get this done in an
orderly way, where
everyone can contribute knowing they are not duplicating anything. I'll
contact a great local
librarian who is very savvy about such matters. And a lot could be done by
links. For example,
Nate has a wonderful collection of relevant materials at marxists.org.
Thanks to the prodding
of Pablo del Rio, we put all the old lchc newsletters online .......

Perhaps someone at XMCA has a good suggestion for how to do it.
mike

On 9/8/07, Steve Gabosch <sgabosch@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On this discussion on collectively articulating the historical ideas
> behind CHAT here on xmca - and perhaps creating a symposium on the
> question at ISCAR next year - fantastic proposals! - here is an
> idea. Something very useful that could come out of such efforts
> might be the creation of a master bibliography of core and other
> influential writings regarding CHAT.
>
> Collectively, much of this information is actually at our
> fingertips. Three sources immediately occur to me: 1) books,
> articles and documents on people's bookshelves, in their filing
> cabinets, and on their computers 2) bibliographies in published
> writings 3) writings assigned in relevant college courses.
>
> I wonder if there is way we could collect such a master list from
> ourselves, and produce in a way that people could download. (And if
> we want to be really ambitious, keep adding to). With such a master
> bibliography people could experiment with ways of presenting it, or
> selected parts of it, in ways that suit their own perspective, which
> in turn might help them develop narratives from their outlook to
> explain relationships between ideas, people, writings, events, etc.
> in CHAT history. Such a tool could help all CHAT-influenced people
> participate in being historians of CHAT, each in their own way.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> At 05:27 PM 9/6/2007 -0700, Mike Cole wrote:
> >HUGE FONT FOR HUGE QUESTION!!!
> >Now for the small print - read with care)
> >(I volunteer to do this work on condition that members of xmca complete
> two
> >grant proposals required in next few weeks, prepare for,
> >and teach my fall classes! I will provide a cot and key to LCHC to my
> >substitute at UCSD during this time period. And when I am done,
> >like the dragon's teeth that Jason stirred up looking for the golden
> fleece,
> >a thousand better informed colleagues will point out the
> >total idiocy of my interpretation of history)
> >
> >Now, feeling all springy and cool after the passing fit of local hot air,
> I
> >will say that
> >I think it would be most useful, if there is genuine interest in such
> >historical excavation,
> >exegesis, and exciting prospects, that it be (shhhhh) a collective
> effort.
> >
> >There are books written on this topics, several chapters of books about
> >which some members
> >of xmca are presumably knowledgeable because their names are attached to
> >them, as well as
> >many papers written on this topic in many languages, and hot disputes
> about
> >this topic in several
> >world capitals as we stare at our screens. There is even a lot to be
> found
> >by goggling on lchc.
> >
> >For the moment (I am about to join my family after a long day of work) I
> >append a graphical genaeology (sp?) created by Arne Raeithel that may
> >indicate some of the territory to be covered in a way some will find
> useful.
> >I have a few documents around the lab I can dig up that most will
> >not know about that are relevant. But this topic, if people really want
> to
> >engage it, requires willingness of many to cooperate in a collaborative
> >archeaology of ideas.
> >
> >Perhaps this would make an interesting general symposium at ISCAR next
> year,
> >if the organizers, wherever they are hiding, ever get around
> >to making public their plans for that august occasion.
> >
> >mike
> >
> >
> >On 9/6/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James Cunningham
> > > to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
> > > historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science, sociocultural
> > > perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the problems
> at
> > > each point that pushed things onward?
> > >
> > > Helena
> > >
> > >
> > > Helena Worthen
> > > Clinical Associate Professor
> > > Labor Education Program
> > > Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> > > 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> > > Champaign, IL 61821
> > > Phone: 217-244-4095
> > > hworthen@uiuc.edu
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson wrote:
> > > > Don,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a
> useful
> > >
> > > > question for discussion in this group.
> > > >
> > > > I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to your
> main
> > >
> > > > question about teaching CHAT.
> > > >
> > > > First, you write:
> > > >> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
> > > >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and
> have
> > > a
> > > >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
> > > >
> > > > Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a time
> > > > the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been vanquished
> > > > by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
> > > > superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where the
> > > > story ends (as in the "End of History" celebrated since Daniel Bell
> in
> > >
> > > > the early 60's, where history completes itself with the universal
> > > > triumph of capitalism).
> > > >
> > > > I think it's important for students to learn about what's happening
> > > > "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of theory or
> > > > intellectual politics: My students just won't understand anything
> I'm
> > > > saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an
> ontology
> > >
> > > > in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded in
> > > > the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being and
> > > > becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism, and
> > > > CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I think
> > > > Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes this
> > > > point more directly and accessibly, although details have not been
> > > > theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own
> home
> > > > turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology, not
> > > > merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and Becoming).
> > > >
> > > > So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony giving
> way
> > > > to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
> > > > to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to say
> that
> > >
> > > > the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an ideology
> of
> > > > postcognitivISM (see my post at http://postcog.net ); Nor is it a
> call
> > >
> > > > for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic cognitivism.
> > > >
> > > > One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in Practice."
> > > > Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
> > > > I think this particular point might come through more strongly in
> > > > Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of Practice."
> > > > Paper presented at the American Educational Research Association,
> San
> > > > Francisco 1992.
> > > > (This paper is now linked from http://postcog.net/#Lave . This is
> the
> > > > paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
> > > > organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_, although a
> > > > different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA article
> > > > includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is broader
> and
> > > > the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
> > > > published article.)
> > > >
> > > > With regard to your main question, you write:
> > > >> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
> > > >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT.
> I
> > > >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in
> the
> > > >> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept
> of
> > > >> "object". Or am I wrong?
> > > >
> > > > This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
> > > > As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be best to
> > > > streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the differentiation
> > > > among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
> > > > dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and activity
> > > > systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
> > > > goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized operational
> > > > activity that does not require conscious attention.
> > > >
> > > > It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
> > > > audience. Starting points could include the resources at
> > > > http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
> > > > and
> > > > Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected
> Legacy":
> > > > Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational Research
> > > > 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
> > > > as well as
> > > > pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through Organizations: A
> > > > Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
> > > > Press, 2003.
> > > > and
> > > > pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin, Victor,
> and
> > >
> > > > Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
> > > > Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate class
> in
> > > >> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few
> years
> > > >> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you would
> be
> > > >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT.
> I
> > > >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in
> the
> > > >> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept
> of
> > > >> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects
> (behaviorism,
> > > >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and
> have
> > > a
> > > >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Don Cunningham
> > > >> Indiana University
> > > >>
> > > >> Ancora Imparo!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > >> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
> > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > >> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions requested
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear Xmca-ites---
> > > >>
> > > >> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course on
> > > >> mediational theories of mind.
> > > >> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
> > > >> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the
> affordances
> > > of
> > > >> different kinds of mediators
> > > >> in human action/activity/mind.
> > > >>
> > > >> So, language and thought
> > > >> writing
> > > >> film
> > > >> music
> > > >> tv
> > > >> rituals
> > > >> games
> > > >> .........
> > > >>
> > > >> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity to
> > > >> members
> > > >> of this list, I have been thinking about including
> > > >> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's
> recent
> > > >> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
> > > >> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
> > > >>
> > > >> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its hard
> to
> > > >> even
> > > >> think about how to begin to think about this
> > > >> upcoming fall!!
> > > >>
> > > >> mike
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Tony Whitson
> > > > UD School of Education
> > > > NEWARK DE 19716
> > > >
> > > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > > _______________________________
> > > >
> > > > "those who fail to reread
> > > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > Hi everyone:
> > > Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving way
> to
> > > cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn to
> the
> > >
> > > broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is
> being
> > > presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological entities)
> in
> > >
> > > our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would
> further
> > > be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you who
> > > have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and, in
> > > some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
> > > theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an interesting
> > > discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out on-line
> > > previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something when
> > > we view it in motion.
> > > Cathrene
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
> > > Assistant Professor of Education
> > > 607.274.7382
> > > Ithaca College
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> >
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> >
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>
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Received on Sat Sep 8 15:26 PDT 2007