Re: [xmca] Hiroshima Nagasaki

From: Paul Dillon <phd_crit_think who-is-at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Aug 11 2007 - 10:13:43 PDT

Erik,
   
  I never meant to imply that there was a contradiction. "A time for every season under heaven". Almost everyone recognizes the right to self-defense when attacked. However, for me the question concerns the conditions under which one reverts to "war", and what kinds of war are justifiable.
   
  I don't believe the type of war waged at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, -- and before that Wounded Knee, Guernica, Dresden, fire-bombing Tokyo, etc. -- is ever justifiable in the name of self defense.
   
  Paul

Eirik Knutsson <eikn6681@student.su.se> wrote:
  
War and peace... Sun and rain... Is there necessarily a contradiction here?
Ares (Mars) was the god of war who presided over battlefields and armies.
Unlike his Roman counterpart, he was never very popular, and his worship was
not extensive in Greece. He was associated with Aphrodite from earliest times;
in fact, Aphrodite was known locally (e.g., at Sparta) as a war goddess,
apparently an early facet of her character‚€¶ In Roman literature, Mars was the
protector of Rome, a nation proud in war. In Norse mythology, Frey was the
ruler of peace and fertility, rain, and sunshine. His sister and female
counterpart, Freya, was goddess of love, fertility, battle, and death...

On 2007-08-11, at 02:56, Paul Dillon wrote:
> mike,
>
> whose god? god of peace or god of war?
>
> I side with the poet who said,
>
> "if god's on our side, he'll stop the next war."
>
> Paul Dillon
>
> Mike Cole wrote:
> Thanks Naeem--
>
> Of course, the US is not the only country afflicted with collective amnesia.
>
> Such objects as you sent us, and the narrative that contextualizes it, and
> the
> question, why, are very effective aides de memoire.
>
> The answer of course, is that God was on our side, whichever side we are on.
>
> And so it has ever been.
>:-(......
> mike
>
> On 8/10/07, Naeem Hashmi wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I could not agree more ... we, here is America, have a very short
>> memory....Perhaps, a Nations' memory maturation comes with age of culture
>> of
>> the nation ! (... but that's another discussion thread..) Moreover, we
>> don't teach our kids 'what is outside'. We teach kids from only looking
>> inside - not looking from outside-in.
>>
>> Me, being a Nuclear Physicist, I often sit back and think, how in the name
>> of self-defined-security, we destroy 'humanity".
>>
>> It was just a coincidence, or an unconscious effort, that 2 days back on
>> the
>> anniversary of A-Bomb drop, I was sorting through my 'old' photo album.
>> This
>> photo (a snap of the photo is attached) popped out that reminded me of the
>> moment when I actually held this object in my hand that triggered stream
>> of
>> emotions way back in August 1979....almost 30 years back (yes..
>> another old
>> fellow...)
>>
>> Well, this object was collected by a team of Americans who went to
>> Hiroshima-and-Nagasaki after the a-BOM to observe its effects. In 1979,
>> when I was working at the Nuclear Radiation Center (NRC) at Washington
>> State
>> University, this object was brought in to scan for radioactivity. I do not
>> recall which colleague brought this to the NRC but I took this photo.
>> This
>> was a ceramic doll or something which still had intense heat burn marks on
>> forehead, chest and side due to Intense heat exposure... When I held the
>> object in my palm, I sensed as if Object is communicating and asking
>> 'why'... and this photo brings back same emotions anytime when I see..
>> Perhaps touching an object that survived reminds of thousands of innocent
>> lost lives that have no choice...
>>
>> Naeem
>>
>> ---
>> Naeem Hashmi
>> Chief Research Officer
>> Information Frameworks
>> T: 603-552-5171 M: 603-661-6820
>> W: http://infoframeworks.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Cole"
>> To: "Kiyoshi AMANO2"
>> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Hiroshima Nagasaki
>>
>>
>> > Good day, Amano-san,
>> >
>> > I am afraid we are discussing the memories of old people now, memories
>> > that
>> > appear to have been lost in the younger generation in the US.
>> >
>> >>From the following articles from Japanese English Language Newspapers,
>> > it appears that the events are still alive in collecitve memory, but
>> their
>> > meaning
>> > is perhaps more disputed.
>> >
>> > mike
>> >
>> >
>> > http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed20070704a1.html
>> > http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070804a7.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/10/07, Kiyoshi AMANO2 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mike!
>> >> Thank you very much for your message on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
>> >> I transmitted your mail to the mailing lists of Japanese Psychologists
>> >> Which I belong to. We Japanese wish rupture of all nuclear weapons.
>> >>
>> >> Kiyoshi Amano, Tokyo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> >> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>> >> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:45 AM
>> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >> Subject: [xmca] Hiroshima Nagasaki
>> >>
>> >> It appears that yet another form of amnesia has overtaken xlchc/xmca.
>> >> No
>> >> one has thought to remember, in
>> >> public sorrow, the fact that the United States dropped atomic bombs on
>> >> the
>> >> Japanese cities of Hiroshima and
>> >> Nasaki on Aug 6-9th of some year or other a long time ago..... probably
>> >> too
>> >> long a time ago to remember, so
>> >> many more atrocities have occurred in the interim.
>> >>
>> >> My deepest apologies to my Japanese friends and colleagues for this
>> >> desperate, atrocious acts.
>> >> They were not the last, and certainly not the most recent mistakes
>> >> taken by
>> >> my government in the
>> >> name of democracy and human decency. That such actions taken in my name
>> >> have
>> >> been matched in
>> >> horrifying measure by other countries, for whatever reasons, does not
>> >> lessen
>> >> my responsibility, and the
>> >> responsibility of all those who read this note.
>> >>
>> >> Hiroshima. Nagasaki.
>> >> Those who forget are inviting such treatment on themselves, their
>> >> children,
>> >> and their grandchildren.
>> >>
>> >> In this context I am moved to repeat two messages I read a year ago at
>> >> the
>> >> internment camp in Manzenar, California,
>> >> where thousands of Nisei Americans were interned:
>> >>
>> >> Benjamin Franklin: They that can give up essential liberties to obtain
>> a
>> >> little temporaray security deserve neither liberty nor safety"
>> >> Tom Paine: (one of my founding fathers, at least): He that would make
>> >> his
>> >> own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he
>> >> violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to
>> >> himself.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> mike
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> xmca mailing list
>> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>>
>>
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Received on Sat Aug 11 10:16 PDT 2007

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