Re: [xmca] Fwd: social spaces

From: Steve Gabosch (
Date: Tue Feb 20 2007 - 20:47:03 PST

Hi Jen,
Yes, as you suspect, question is more along the lines you suggest at
the end of your response. I am thinking of social classes - and
social spaces, a relatively new concept to me - as entities that
develop historically and culturally. Some questions, playing off
your words, to try to tease out how you see their relationship ...
Which (if either) do you see as primary in a genetic sense? Do you
see one as a component of the other? How do you see social classes
and social spaces as influencing each other developmentally over time?
- Steve

At 09:35 AM 2/20/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Resending this, Tuesday, not posted Monday.
>Hi Steve,

>Social class shapes the structure of economic rationalist discourses
>and, more particularly, of what we refer to as the chronotope of new
>managerialism. Within this discourse, this chronotope, social class
>dispositions are ranked hierarchically and privileged accordingly.
>Not simply in terms of what the students begin school with, but also
>in terms of the positions that they can obtain after school;
>positions within a particular labour market that is oriented toward
>preserving social status (class) divisions, rather than overcoming
>them. Economic rationalism drives new managerialism toward
>accountability, the production of certain kinds of students and
>teachers, and the more general production of consumers.
>I see this discourse, this chronotope, having a profound impact on
>schooling in Australia, and elsewhere, and social class shaping
>them. Hmmmm...okay, I'm still thinking/writing this through. I'm not
>sure if I addressed your question. Are you asking which is primary?
>Which is a component of which?
>Let me know if I've misread your note - best - jen
>>I enjoyed reading your article, Jennifer and Elizabeth. I have a
>>question somewhat like Mike's. Where does the concept of social
>>class fit into your concept of social space?
>>- Steve
>>At 08:38 AM 2/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Interesting questin, Jennifer. We are reading Mind as Action for discussion
>>>in seminar today. I will ask my students to read your artice, your note, and
>>>to contribute their ideas.
>>>I have written on this subject enough. Time for other voices.
>>>On 2/13/07, Jennifer Vadeboncoeur <> wrote:
>>>>Yes, thanks for that query. In this piece we began with the physical
>>>>and were writing/thinking through what other forms of "space" might
>>>>look like. Space that is constituted by or produced in human
>>>>activity, social practices, and discursive practices, for example,
>>>>that would help us describe and explain our research.
>>>>The concepts that are central to our work - social, cultural, and
>>>>historical - are in my mind, though I have taken up and used "social
>>>>practices" more than "cultural practices" or "historical practices,"
>>>>perhaps out of force of habit. I see this tendency in Harvey,
>>>>Lefebvre, and Soja's work - that is, to talk about the social moreso
>>>>than the cultural, though in saying that, I pause, because Harvey, in
>>>>particular, emphasizes the historical alongside the social production
>>>>of space.
>>>>So, when I read the term "social," as in "social construction of
>>>>knowledge," I read it as a process that is at once social, cultural,
>>>>and historical. I read it as mediated, semiotic, embodied. I
>>>>appreciate your point; that others may not read it this way.
>>>>Sociocultural, cultural historical, sociohistorical, cultural? How
>>>>are other folks managing this?
>>>>Best - jennifer
>>>>>Hi Jennifer--
>>>>>For those who have not gotten the article, you can start at the following
>>>>>url, then go to the journal and down on the right
>>>>>hand side you will see the last article in the series. That is the one on
>>>> >spaces that Jennifer is referring to.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Good luck hunting and reading!!
>>>> >
>>>> >Jennifer-- How come the term, culture, does not figure in your brief
>>>>>On 2/12/07, Jennifer Vadeboncoeur <> wrote:
>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:04:29 -0800
>>>>>>>From: Jennifer Vadeboncoeur <>
>>>>>>>Subject: social spaces
>>>>>>>Dear XMCA Folks,
>>>>>>>Hope this note finds you well!
>>>>>>>On Monday, Mike attached the piece entitled, Hirst, E. &
>>>>>>>Vadeboncoeur, J. A. (2006). Patrolling the borders of Otherness:
>>>>>>>Dis/placed identity positions for teachers and students in schooled
>>>>>>>spaces. Mind, Culture, and Activity: An International Journal,
>>>>>>>13(3), 203-225.
>>>>>>>I am mindful of busy schedules and not sure who may have gotten the
>>>> >>>chance to read it yet, but I thought I would throw out a a bit of a
>>>>>>>beginning piece and see if I can generate some discussion. Elizabeth
>>>>>>>Hirst, at Griffith University in Brisbane, will contribute as she
>>>>>>>can around her traveling schedule.
>>>>>>>As I think about this piece, two interests of ours were: an interest
>>>>>>>in understanding social space, as distinct from material or physical
>>>>>>>space; and an interest in exploring the intersection between
>>>>>>>government - federal and state - policy and the lives of teachers
>>>>>>>and students. For example, if we attempt to work beyond the "space
>>>>>>>as container" metaphor, how do we describe, define, exemplify social
>>>>>>>space? What constructs social space? How is it constituted? And from
>>>>>>>a research perspective, what sorts of data would need to be gathered
>>>>>>>to provide evidence of social space? Both theoretical and
>>>>>> >methodological issues surface here and for the second area of
>>>>>> >interest. In terms of links between policy and practice, how do we
>>>>>> >map across policy initiatives and what occurs at the level of the
>>>>>>>school and/or the classroom? How do we link policy with the lives of
>>>>>>>young people outside of schools?
>>>>>>>Just some thoughts here. As you think about this piece, what stands
>>>>>>>out for you?
>>>>>>>Best - jennifer
>>>>>>>[Eliz, please jump in when you can, and add to the above, vibes for
>>>>>> >safe travels!]
>>>xmca mailing list
>>xmca mailing list
>Dr. Jennifer A. Vadeboncoeur
>The University of British Columbia
>Faculty of Education
>2125 Main Mall
>Library Block 272B
>Vancouver BC V6T-1Z4
>phone: 1.604.822.9099
>fax: 1.604.822.3302
>xmca mailing list

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