Elina-- Yes, this material can be found in 1998 ol 5 of collected works
where interpenetration of person and environment are discussed.
mike
On 1/15/07, Lampert-Shepel, Elina <elampertshepel@mercy.edu> wrote:
>
> I am a Russian speaker, but it doesn't make the task of translation
> of "perezhivanie" easier. I've been struggling for years to find a
> meaningful English translation for Vygotskian very important concept of
> "novoobrazovaniye", i.e. new formation in the psyche , newly formed higher
> psychological function that transformed the previous psychological functions
> as well as their connections in the consciousness of an acting subject...if
> anyone has a word for it, I would appreciate...Maybe there is something
> challenging with translation into English of Russian gerund type nouns that
> reflect a process of transformation and do not point to the result or end.
>
> I guess, the challenge is to grasp conceptual meanings in translation
> rather than to have a direct translation of the word. As for "perezhivanie,"
> as far as I understand, for Vygotsky it was a unit of analysis for the
> study of person and environment. I do not have an English translation, but
> in his Pedology of Adolescent, Vygotsky names "perezhivanie" to be a unit
> that helps to avoid the dualism of individual and environment. According to
> Bozhovich, for a short period of time Vygotsky considered "perezhivanie" as
> the unit of psychological development in the study of the social situation
> of development. Moreover, I do not know whether it was included in the
> English translation, but in the last three pages of Pedology of Adolescent,
> he discusses "perezhivanie' as a dynamic unit of consciousness that allows
> to explore the attributes of consciousness in their connection, while he
> considered memory, thinking, etc., to be the elements. "Perezhivanie " is
> often discussed in relation to emotion, but it seems that for Vygotsky it is
> much more than emotional experience. The word itself for a Russian speaker,
> does not sound as a term, it can be easily used in poetry. I do not mind
> "experience" in Dewean sense, but "perezhivanie" is rather a reflection of
> the experience, the internal both emotional and cognitive process in
> child's consciousness that is a transformational for future development.
>
> That's my thinking so far...
>
> Elina
>
>
> Elina Lampert-Shepel, Ed.D..
> Assistant Professor
> Graduate School of Education
> Mercy College New Teacher Residency Program
> Mercy College
> 66 West 35th Street
> New York, NY 10001
> (212) 615 3367
>
>
> I have on my table a violin string. It is free. I twist one end of
> it and it responds. It is free. But it is not free to do what a
> violin string is supposed to do - to produce music. So I take it,
> fix it in my violin and tighten it until it is taut. Only then it
> is free to be a violin string.
> Sir Rabindranath Tagore.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Serbo-Croatian there are also two expressions - somewhat similar to
> the Russian ones:
> DOZHIVLYAY AND ISKUSTVO
>
> The Spanish/Portuguese "VIVENCIA" is very descriptive and beautiful!
>
> Ana
>
> Silvio Marquardt wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > I think that Romanic languages could also help in handling the Russian
> concept:
> >
> > PEREZHIVANIE and OPIT (Russian)
> > ERLEBNIS and ERFAHRUNG (German)
> > VIVENCIA and EXPERIENCIA (Portuguese/Spanish)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Silvio
> >
> >
> >
> > Leif Strandberg <leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com> wrote: Hi
> >
> > I am not at Russian speaker (or reader)
> >
> > Da i
> >
> > to me the word-meaning of perezhivania sounds and look very much Karl
> > Marx. In "German Ideology" Marx writes over and over again how
> >
> > "What" and "how" are dialectically connected
> >
> > How we "really" are
> >
> > (I do not have the English version - only the Swedish - so I am sure I
> > have translated Marx wrong here -
> >
> > da i
> >
> > I recommend German Ideology
> >
> > Leif
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2007-01-15 kl. 05.57 skrev Mike Cole:
> >
> >
> >> Catherine, Sonja et al-
> >>
> >> Serendipitously I was reading LSV on the problem of the environment
> >> which is
> >> discussed in a chapter so entitled by van der veer and valsiner
> >> in The Vygotsky Reader. They have a long footnote about "perezhivanie"
> >> on
> >> p. 354. They use the term "emotional experience" as a translation
> >> but say it is not adequate, contrasting it with interpretation which
> >> they
> >> also say is not adequate, and say that it is very like the German term
> >> "erleben" as Volker surmised.
> >>
> >> Vasiliuk who wrote a book about perezhivanie that is translated into
> >> English
> >> uses Doestoevsky for most of his examples. That should cue
> >> you to the emotional ladeness of the term! And, apropos of other local
> >> discussions, to the fact that separating cognition and emotion is
> >> not indigenously Russian, and is in fact antithetical to the Russian
> >> lexicon, the source of lots of intercultural non-understandings.
> >>
> >> You can get some feel for the prefix "pere" if you think of the word
> >> "pere-stroika." It indexes a process of getting through some
> >> experience, or
> >> reliving an experience, or re-building. I am sure that some of the
> >> Russians
> >> who lurk in this neighborhood can help us peredumat' ( think over
> >> again)
> >> about this very interesting and complex semantic field.
> >> mike
> >>
> >> On 1/14/07, Cathrene Connery wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Sonja and everyone,
> >>> Thanks for your translation of perezhivanie and the corresponding
> >>> reference. After reading Vygotsky's writings on the topic, I have
> >>> used the
> >>> terminology "lived experience" and felt it insufficiently represented
> >>> the
> >>> transactive dimension of the concept. "Lived-through" accounts for
> >>> human
> >>> agency as well as the dialectic between the interpersonal &
> >>> intrapersonal
> >>> experience. Interestingly, I have met native Russian speakers who
> >>> were not
> >>> familiar with the term, although it might have been reflective of
> >>> their own
> >>> funds of knowledge.
> >>> Have a nice day!
> >>> Cathrene
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
> >>> Central Washington University
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Sonja Baumer 1/14/2007 2:30 PM >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> hi cathrene and others,
> >>> here is my response to your question about the translation of
> >>> PEREZHIVANIE into english:
> >>> in our previous work (see baumer et al, 2005) we translated
> >>> perezhivanie as LIVED-THROUGH EXPERIENCE. the translation is
> >>> necessarily descriptive as we could not find english word that would
> >>> allow us to distinguish between PEREZHIVANIE and OPIT -- both of which
> >>> are translated in english as EXPERIENCE.
> >>> If u r a german speaker, a parallel distinction in german can be made
> >>> between ERLEBNIS and ERFAHRUNG.
> >>> i am not so fluent in german and russian, but the distinction seemed
> >>> important to me, especially after reading stanislavski who also wrote
> >>> about PEREZHIVANIE. let us know what your friends with more expertise
> >>> in german and/or russian than myself had to say about that :-)
> >>> sonja
> >>>
> >>> On 1/12/07, Cathrene Connery wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Volker and everyone:
> >>>> Thanks for taking the time to provide us with quotes regarding the
> >>>>
> >>> dialectical nature of the ZPD from the German translation you referred
> >>> to. While I am not fluent in German, I have some friends that are
> >>> and will
> >>> call on their expertise to help translate the text you quoted.
> >>>
> >>>> The issue of translation can make a huge difference in our
> >>>>
> >>> transaction
> >>> with and interpretation of Vygotsky's writings. I have struggled
> >>> especially
> >>> with the concept of perezhivanie / perezhivanija. Would anyone like
> >>> to take
> >>> a stab at this one?
> >>>
> >>>> Gratefully,
> >>>> Cathrene
> >>>>
> >>>> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> >>>> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
> >>>> Central Washington University
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> "Volker.hippie" 1/11/2007 2:44 AM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> Dear Cathrine, in "Denken und Sprechen", translated by Lompscher and
> >>>> Rückriem, I felt in love with the term, on page 253: "Aus dieser
> >>>> specifischen Zusammenarbeit zwischen Kind und Erwachsenem, die ...
> >>>>
> >>> das
> >>>
> >>>> zentrale Moment im Bildungsproces darstellt, erklärt sich die frühe
> >>>> Reifung wissenschaftlicher Begriffe sowie der Umstand, dass ihr
> >>>> Entwicklungsniveau als *Zone der nächsten Möglichkeiten (Zone for
> >>>>
> >>> next
> >>>
> >>>> possibilities) *hinsichtlich der Alltagsbegriffe wirkt, indem er
> >>>>
> >>> ihnen
> >>>
> >>>> als eine Art Propädeutik den Weg bahnt".
> >>>>
> >>>> Page 32: Um nachzuahmen, muss ich die Möglichkeit haben, von dem,
> >>>>
> >>> was
> >>>
> >>>> ich kann, zu dem überzugehen, was ich nicht kann.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to give you some more quotes, but first I have to ask,
> >>>>
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>>> are you able to read German? In a way it would not make meaning to
> >>>> translate fx the term "Bildungsproces", because as I know they do
> >>>>
> >>> not
> >>>
> >>>> have a word for it, in English. "Bildung" is another one, of this
> >>>>
> >>> funny
> >>>
> >>>> words, where Bildung means to get educated, not only as we
> >>>>
> >>> understand to
> >>>
> >>>> learning, but, too, as socializing to a democratic human member of
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>> world community.
> >>>>
> >>>> You could find the same passages in the translation by Kozulin,
> >>>>
> >>> 1986, or
> >>>
> >>>> Sevé, 1997, but for me , Lompscher/Rückriem (with the assistance of
> >>>> Elena Kravtsova, Ghita Vygodskaya) have been able to translate the
> >>>>
> >>> words
> >>>
> >>>> by Vygotsky in a way, as they express in the start of the book,
> >>>>
> >>> closest
> >>>
> >>>> to the Russian original text. - I don't know if that is the
> >>>>
> >>> "really" the
> >>>
> >>>> case, ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Volker
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Cathrene Connery skrev:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Volker,
> >>>>> Thanks for the interesting comments. Is it possible to select a
> >>>>>
> >>> quote
> >>> / selection regarding the ZPD from the text you mentioned and post it
> >>> for
> >>> the list serve?
> >>>
> >>>>> Feliz dia (Have a happy day),
> >>>>> Cathrene
> >>>>>
> >>>>> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> >>>>> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
> >>>>> Central Washington University
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Volker.hippie" 1/10/2007 8:59 AM
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, and the ZPD reminds me of the term Gibson used to describe
> >>>>> perception in a way, which made it possible to bridge between the
> >>>>> objective and subjective perception, which he named
> >>>>>
> >>> "/affordances/".
> >>>
> >>>>> and I agree with Armando, the ZPD is something between the
> >>>>>
> >>> individual
> >>>
> >>>>> and the other(s) - and it gets facilitated by common joint
> >>>>>
> >>> activities.
> >>>
> >>>>> But that does not mean, that I can not take what I learn in a ZPD
> >>>>>
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>>>> me, to others places, other and maybe even more developmental
> >>>>>
> >>> ZPD's.
> >>>
> >>>>> Just a thought, - that the real fantastic principles in
> >>>>>
> >>> psychology are
> >>>
> >>>>> not either/or individual/collective principles, but both, at the
> >>>>>
> >>> same
> >>>
> >>>>> time, in a dialectical way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is therefore so wonderful to read Vygotsky - ´cause nobody
> >>>>>
> >>> has,
> >>>
> >>>>> IMHO, come up with a clearer description of the ZPD than made by
> >>>>> Vygotsky in Denken und Sprechen, 2002, which is the translation by
> >>>>> Lompscher et al. .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Volker
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Armando Perez skrev:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Eric: I dont like to look at ZPD as individual but as
> >>>>>> a colective interperson al situation. This means that
> >>>>>> ZPD do not belong to an individual but it is
> >>>>>> constructed or co-constructed. I also work in
> >>>>>> educational aplication of Vygotsky and I am tried to
> >>>>>> unified the concept od ZPD and Social Situation odf
> >>>>>> Development. What do you think about that
> >>>>>> Armando
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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