The question may be whether or not we survive at all phylogenetically, let
alone be "affected".
Andy
At 09:15 AM 13/01/2007 +0200, you wrote:
>In the short-term we are accruing or constructing knowledge at an ever
>greater rate, so semiotic mediation is more important than ever, but over
>time I don't yet see how this will affect us phylogenetically.
>
>Carol
>
>PS Unless babies start coming down the birth canal with built in (organic)
>play stations. :-))
>
>
>On 1/12/07, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>SungWon, Mike and others:
>>
>>Phylogeny has not stopped, we are still evolving as a species; for better
>>or worse we have not stopped evolving. Am I wrong in stating that
>>semiotic
>>mediation is the process structure of the cultural/historical
>><->ontogeny/phylogeny dialectic?
>>
>>eric
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mike Cole"
>> <lchcmike who-is-at gmail. To: "eXtended Mind,
>>Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> com> cc:
>> Sent by: Subject: Re: correction RE:
>>[xmca] Reference for ontological and
>> xmca-bounces who-is-at web
>>phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
>> er.ucsd.edu
>>
>>
>> 01/11/2007 07:57
>> PM
>> Please respond
>> to mcole; Please
>> respond to
>> "eXtended Mind,
>> Culture,
>> Activity"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Folks, you are confusing me.
>>Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one
>>tiny
>>branch.
>>During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in which
>>achievements of
>>prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
>>life of creatures that
>>evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.
>>
>>To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical proces////////
>>is either simply a confusion
>>or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo
>>sapiens
>>and homo sapiens sapiens
>>emerged.
>>
>>My two tsarist kopeks
>>mike
>>
>>On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang <swhwang@uvic.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Eric,
>> > I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
>> > cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human
>>activities.
>> > Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
>> > individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
>> > achieve collective motives.
>> > SungWon
>> >
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> > > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
>> > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
>> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> > > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
>> > > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Michael and Tony:
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
>> > > produce the phylogentic development?
>> > >
>> > > eric
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Tony Whitson
>> > > <twhitson who-is-at UDel.E To: "'eXtended
>>Mind,
>> > > Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> > > du> cc: Mike Cole
>> > > <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> > > Sent by: Subject: correction RE:
>> > [xmca]
>> > > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
>> > > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
>> > > er.ucsd.edu
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 01/11/2007 09:39
>> > > AM
>> > > Please respond
>> > > to "eXtended
>> > > Mind, Culture,
>> > > Activity"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
>> > > (ontogenic)
>> > > > development of language ability in the child could be compared with
>> > the
>> > > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
>> > > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
>> > football
>> > > --
>> > > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
>> > great
>> > a
>> > > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
>> > guard
>> > > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
>> > player's
>> > > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the
>>game
>> > > itself. Skills
>> > > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
>> > > history
>> > > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be
>> > part
>> > > of
>> > > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way
>>to
>> > > > development of skills they use today.
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>[mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> > > On
>> > > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
>> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> > > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
>> > > > languagecomparison
>> > > >
>> > > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
>> > > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
>> > > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
>> > > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
>> > > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
>> > > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
>> > > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game
>>ever
>> > > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken
>>the
>> > > > British or American way).
>> > > > Michael
>> > > >
>> > > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis:
>>what
>> > > > can
>> > > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in
>>IN
>> > > > the
>> > > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
>> > > >
>> > > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
>> > > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
>> > > > ontogony?
>> > > > OD children create grammatical forms?
>> > > >
>> > > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
>> > > >
>> > > > eric
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Tony Whitson
>> > > UD School of Education
>> > > NEWARK DE 19716
>> > >
>> > > twhitson@udel.edu
>> > > _______________________________
>> > >
>> > > "those who fail to reread
>> > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>> > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > xmca mailing list
>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > xmca mailing list
>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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>_______________________________________________
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Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435, AIM
identity: AndyMarxists mobile 0409 358 651
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