[Fwd: Re: [xmca] Dialectical nature of the ZPD]

From: Volker.hippie (Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk)
Date: Fri Jan 12 2007 - 08:46:16 PST

Dear Catalina, you are right. The term "nächsten" in German can be
translated with next, but if we follow the root of the word, you are
right, that would be "in der Nähe", that is nearby, proximal.

What was new for me, to read by Vygotsky, is the combination of the two
words, /nächsten Möglichkeiten/, that is in English the Zone of
proximal, or better, nearby *possibilities*.

For me the word possibilities (plural) seems almost postmodern in
contrast to the word development.

Nobody would know beforehand all the possibilities which are possible,
though Vygotsky some pages earlier makes the statement that the range of
possibilities (development) is somehow depended by the individual and
the socio-cultural activities/signs which are in play. As Elena
Kravtsova said in her speech in Moscow, at the 7th International
Vygotsky Memorial Conference, in November 2006, /Vygotsky could in one
way be (nearly) a biologist, pointing at the ground all human beings
have in common /(our nature history, which Leontjev explained so nicely
from the early beginnings of re-action and life), /and in the same time
be a constructivist, where there always are possibilities for more
possibilities, especially in the arts and the humanities./

At the conference several speakers said, that Vygotsky was /in love with
the crisis of psychology./

And it could be, that I am in love with principles which invite both, or
even several "language-games" to create Zones of nearby possibilities.

Thank you for your reply, and correction, - next would actually be not
the right term.


PS. Can you take photos of a ZPD?

Catalina Laserna skrev:
> Thank you for the the reference to the German translation of "Speech
> and Thought" -- I will try to get a copy. Although my German is
> rusty, I am very aware of how much is lost in translation, for
> example, certain passages of Heideggar make little sense in the English.
> Anyway, I was thinking: would "nächsten" not also connote "nearby"?
> The implication of this nuanced difference in wording is that
> development would have an opportunistic aspect to it.
> Best,
> Catalina
> On Jan 11, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Volker.hippie wrote:
>> Dear Cathrine, in "Denken und Sprechen", translated by Lompscher and
>> Rückriem, I felt in love with the term, on page 253: "Aus dieser
>> specifischen Zusammenarbeit zwischen Kind und Erwachsenem, die ...
>> das zentrale Moment im Bildungsproces darstellt, erklärt sich die
>> frühe Reifung wissenschaftlicher Begriffe sowie der Umstand, dass ihr
>> Entwicklungsniveau als *Zone der nächsten Möglichkeiten (Zone for
>> next possibilities) *hinsichtlich der Alltagsbegriffe wirkt, indem er
>> ihnen als eine Art Propädeutik den Weg bahnt".
>> Page 32: Um nachzuahmen, muss ich die Möglichkeit haben, von dem, was
>> ich kann, zu dem überzugehen, was ich nicht kann.
>> I would like to give you some more quotes, but first I have to ask, -
>> are you able to read German? In a way it would not make meaning to
>> translate fx the term "Bildungsproces", because as I know they do not
>> have a word for it, in English. "Bildung" is another one, of this
>> funny words, where Bildung means to get educated, not only as we
>> understand to learning, but, too, as socializing to a democratic
>> human member of the world community.
>> You could find the same passages in the translation by Kozulin, 1986,
>> or Sevé, 1997, but for me , Lompscher/Rückriem (with the assistance
>> of Elena Kravtsova, Ghita Vygodskaya) have been able to translate the
>> words by Vygotsky in a way, as they express in the start of the book,
>> closest to the Russian original text. - I don't know if that is the
>> "really" the case, ...
>> Volker
>> Cathrene Connery skrev:
>>> Hi Volker,
>>> Thanks for the interesting comments. Is it possible to select a
>>> quote / selection regarding the ZPD from the text you mentioned and
>>> post it for the list serve? Feliz dia (Have a happy day),
>>> Cathrene
>>> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education Central Washington
>>> University
>>>>>> "Volker.hippie" <Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk> 1/10/2007 8:59 AM >>>
>>> Yes, and the ZPD reminds me of the term Gibson used to describe
>>> perception in a way, which made it possible to bridge between the
>>> objective and subjective perception, which he named "/affordances/".
>>> and I agree with Armando, the ZPD is something between the
>>> individual and the other(s) - and it gets facilitated by common
>>> joint activities.
>>> But that does not mean, that I can not take what I learn in a ZPD
>>> with me, to others places, other and maybe even more developmental
>>> ZPD's.
>>> Just a thought, - that the real fantastic principles in psychology
>>> are not either/or individual/collective principles, but both, at the
>>> same time, in a dialectical way.
>>> It is therefore so wonderful to read Vygotsky - ´cause nobody has,
>>> IMHO, come up with a clearer description of the ZPD than made by
>>> Vygotsky in Denken und Sprechen, 2002, which is the translation by
>>> Lompscher et al. .
>>> Volker
>>> Armando Perez skrev:
>>>> Eric: I dont like to look at ZPD as individual but as
>>>> a colective interperson al situation. This means that
>>>> ZPD do not belong to an individual but it is
>>>> constructed or co-constructed. I also work in
>>>> educational aplication of Vygotsky and I am tried to
>>>> unified the concept od ZPD and Social Situation odf
>>>> Development. What do you think about that
>>>> Armando
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