Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogeneticlanguagecomparison

From: Paul Dillon (phd_crit_think@yahoo.com)
Date: Fri Jan 12 2007 - 04:41:41 PST


mike,
   
  At sometime in the early 90s Arne R. wrote a wonderful piece for xmca (maybe not even called that at that early date) in which he looked at the various threads concerning the evolution of language as we know it now. Perhaps someone knows the exact whereabouts of that short piece. He made a very good argument looking at the emergence of verbal symbolism and the impact that external events (e.g., the Ice Ages) might have had as punctuating points forcing one kind of behavior into another use.
   
  Paul Dillon

Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
  Folks, you are confusing me.
Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one tiny
branch.
During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in which
achievements of
prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
life of creatures that
evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.

To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical proces////////
is either simply a confusion
or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo sapiens
and homo sapiens sapiens
emerged.

My two tsarist kopeks
mike

On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang wrote:
>
> Hi Eric,
> I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
> cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human activities.
> Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
> individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
> achieve collective motives.
> SungWon
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> >
> >
> > Michael and Tony:
> >
> > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
> > produce the phylogentic development?
> >
> > eric
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Whitson
> >
> > du> cc: Mike Cole
> >
> > Sent by: Subject: correction RE:
> [xmca]
> > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> > er.ucsd.edu
> >
> >
> > 01/11/2007 09:39
> > AM
> > Please respond
> > to "eXtended
> > Mind, Culture,
> > Activity"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
> >
> > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> > (ontogenic)
> > > development of language ability in the child could be compared with
> the
> > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
> > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
> football
> > --
> > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
> great
> a
> > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
> guard
> > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
> player's
> > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the game
> > itself. Skills
> > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
> > history
> > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be
> part
> > of
> > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way to
> > > development of skills they use today.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > languagecomparison
> > >
> > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
> > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
> > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
> > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
> > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
> > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
> > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game ever
> > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken the
> > > British or American way).
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis: what
> > > can
> > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in IN
> > > the
> > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
> > >
> > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
> > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
> > > ontogony?
> > > OD children create grammatical forms?
> > >
> > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
> > >
> > > eric
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
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> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Tony Whitson
> > UD School of Education
> > NEWARK DE 19716
> >
> > twhitson@udel.edu
> > _______________________________
> >
> > "those who fail to reread
> > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
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