Very different here, in Chile, where the teacher union only organizes
them nationally. There are no relevant local unions. Since the
beginning of the 90s teachers got "tenured" within the public sector
because of a reform mobilized by the new democratic government. In
consequence, they cannot be fired. The paradox of this reform is that
it granted tenure to a large number of teachers whose mentality and
training was shaped by Pinochet's 17th year dictatorship. In
consequence, we are facing now the problem of how to renovate those
same teachers' practices without too much room for new generations to
get in, while the performance of the public sector decays one day
after another and make that our poorer children receive the worst
education that they can get. It is a very complicated issue.
Inteerstingly, those same teachers, by means of a democratic
plebiscite, accepted to implement a national program of teacher
assessment, whose results illustrate the problem I just mention: lack
of democratic reform within the classroom.
On Jan 6, 2007, at 4:04 PM, Peg Griffin wrote:
> Yes and ...
> The fissures between and within US teacher unions are another
> factor to
> consider. The supposed and real situation locally and between
> national
> headquarters and locals is a story seldom considered in policies and
> analysis of education change in specific disciplines.
> PG
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:15 AM
> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Cobb & McClain from a different perspective
>
> Just a note to make sure that everyone understands that the
> presence of
> teachers' unions is not a national phenomenon (in the US, anyhow).
> In the
> South, where I've lived the majority of my life, teachers' unions are
> virtually nonexistent. Unions of any sort are rare--it's part of the
> authoritarian culture of the South, broadly speaking. Around the
> turn of the
> 20/21st century, teachers were even stripped of due-process dismissal
> rights--they can simply be fired by principals who want them gone--
> because,
> as the thinking goes, teachers are the problem for poor education, and
> strong administrators are the solution. I think that this fact is
> worth
> sharing with anyone who believes that unions are the problem, given
> that the
> South tends to lag behind other regions in most measurements of
> educational
> quality (themselves dubious, in my view). Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of David Preiss
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:48 PM
> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Cobb & McClain from a different perspective
>
> Indeed, Mike, the same thing applies to other settings as well. In
> my short
> lived experience as a consultant here in Chile, the best so called
> ergonomics work we did here under the wise guidance of Carlos Diaz,
> whom you
> had the chance to meet when you were here in Chile and when he
> visited you
> there, was in collaboration with the unions, in particular those of
> the
> Chilean subway. It is interesting to note that the same problems
> you mention
> replicate in industry when consultants want to jump over the unions
> instead
> of working with them to create more fruitful and productive labor
> relations.
>
> That said, as for the case of the teachers, the question remains
> open when
> you have a national union instead of local unions. I don't know the
> privileged way of teacher organizing in the USA, but in Chile
> teachers have
> only a large national influential syndicate so national issues
> commonly take
> over the local ones as those discussed in the Cobb's paper. So it
> would be
> really complex to have this union dealing with individual schools
> on issues
> of improvement.
>
>
>
> On Jan 5, 2007, at 8:33 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>
>> Last night I had dinner with an early mentor and friend, Dick
>> Atkinson, who was head of NSF, UCSD, and UC overall and has taken a
>> lot of interest in things educational.
>>
>> We got into an argument about school reforms and Dick, a strong
>> advocate of charter schools and variety creating mechanisms opined
>> that "The problem was the unions."
>>
>> I argued that indeed, in some configurations of circumstances made
>> unions uncooperative with supervisor's grand schemes. Allan Bursin
>> steamrolling reforms in San Diego was an example.
>>
>> But, I also argued, that when reforms were organized in a proper
>> manner, unions were NOT a problem and in fact, might be an important
>> part of the solution.
>>
>> I have sent him the Cobb and McClain piece to think about.
>>
>> Question: What was the role of the unions in the case presented by
>> Cobb and McClain? What does their experience teach us about dealing
>> with draconian accountability schemes and "better" school as
>> tightening the screws that hold together the iron cage??
>> mike
>> _______________________________________________
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>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>
> David Preiss, Ph.D.
> Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
>
> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile Escuela de Psicología Av
> Vicuña
> Mackenna 4860 Macul, Santiago Chile
>
> Fono: 3544605
> Fax: 3544844
> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/ web institucional:
> http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
David Preiss, Ph.D.
Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Escuela de Psicología
Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
Macul, Santiago
Chile
Fono: 3544605
Fax: 3544844
e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
web institucional: http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
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