Re: [xmca] Beyond Alterity/Intersubjectivity

From: Mike Cole (lchcmike@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 27 2006 - 10:56:09 PDT


Thanks very much, Fernanda.
Your selections raise an interesting issue about language, e.g., the general
ignorance of languages other than English among
American academics.

I raised this issue with my colleagues in Chile last December and I thought
that we had an agreement for them to select a text
that was in both Spanish and English and that they would be discussion
leaders, writing in the language they felt most comfortable
using, e.g. Spanish. This seemed important to me because in general I think
that members of XMCA underestimate the communicative
handcap of our members living in non-English speaking countries... Often
such people can read English well but have difficulty
writing it, and they feel that their ideas will not be valued owing to the
inelegance of their English. So, putting the shoe on the
other foot (so to speak) seemed like it would be useful.

Using myself as a yardstick (old and unreliable!) my ability to read French
is not good, having been displaced by Russian, and
my ability to read spanish is little better, having been acquired only
informally. But it may well be that we have enough French
readers who can write English to lend a hand, or that (for example) we could
get a couple of the papers (not whole books!)
translated so that those who would be totally left out could at least read
and struggle with notes about the texts in French.

Another possibility would be to run an entire text through a computer
translation. This will produce a semi-interpretable text but
if the topic is familiar (e.g., Vygotsky, Bakhtin) readers like me might
recover a lot of French and be able to participate while
we had a strong French voice guiding the discussion.

There are other variations. We could simply retreat from the issue and read
the one article, by Clot, that is in English.
Lets see what others think. I prefer the bilingual approach personally, but
if it is only a stunt, there is probably no point
to it.

A bientot!
mike

On 8/27/06, Fernanda Liberali <liberali@uol.com.br> wrote:
>
> Here are some of them. I marked the ones I prefer. I am very interested
> in the role of argumentation as an instrument. Because I am an applied
> linguist, this is a big issue, mainly, if one considers Benveniste's
> concern against the role of language as an instrument.
> Fernanda
> *List*
>
> Bronckart, J.P. 1993. *Action Theory and the analysis of action in
> education.* Paper presented at the 5th European Association for Research
> on Learning and Instruction.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (1997). *Activité langagière, textes et discours. Pour un
> interactionisme socio-discursif*. Paris : Delachaux & Niestlé.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (2002a). La explicación en psicología ante el desafío del
> significado. *Estudios de Psicología, 23 (3)*, 387-416.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (2002b). La culture, sémantique du social formatrice de
> la personne. In F. Rastier & S. Bouquet (Ed.), *Une introduction aux
> sciences de la culture* (pp. 175-201). Paris : P.U.F.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (2004). Pourquoi et comment analyser l'agir verbal et non
> verbal en situation de travail ? In : J.-P. Bronckart & Groupe LAF (Ed.),
> *L'analyse de l'agir et des discours dans trois situations de travail*.
> Cahiers de la Section des Sciences de l'Education, xxxxxxxxxxxx.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. & Groupe LAF (2004). *L'analyse de l'agir et des discours
> dans trois situations de travail*. Cahiers de la Section des Sciences de
> l'Education, xxxxxxxxxxxx.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (2002). La conscience comme " analyseur " des
> épistémologies de Vygotski et Piaget. In Y. Clot (Dir.) *Avec Vygotski*,
> 17-43.
>
> Bronckart, J.-P. (2001). S'entendre pour agir et agir pour s'entendre. In
> J. M. Baudouin & J. Friedrich (Eds), *Théories de l'action et éducation*,
> 133-154. Bruxelles : De Boeck Université.
>
> Clot, Y. (1999 a). I. Oddone, les instruments de l'action. *Territoires du
> travail*, *3*, 12-25.
>
> Clot, Y. (2002). De Vygotski à Léontiev via Bakhtine. In Y. Clot (Dir.) *Avec
> Vygotski*, 165-185, Paris : la Dispute. 2ème édition.
>
> Clot, Y. & Faïta, D. (2000). Genres et styles en analyse du travail. Concepts
> et méthodes. *Travailler*, *4*, 7-42
>
> Dolz, J. (1995) Escribir textos argumentativos para mejorar su
> comprensión. *Aprendizaje - Separata*. pp. 65-77.
>
> _______ (1996) Learning argumentative capacities: a study of the effects
> of a systematic and intensive teaching of argumentative discourse in 11-12
> year old children. *Argumentation*, n.º 10. pp. 227-251.
>
> Dolz, J; Rey, N. & Surian, M (2004) Le débat: un dialogue avec la pensée
> de l'autre. *Le français *aujourd'hui, n.º 146. pp. 5-15.
>
> Faïta, D. (1989). Mondes du travail et pratiques langagières. *Langages*,
> *93, 3*, 110-124
>
> Schneuwly, B. (1994). Genres et types de discours : considérations
> psychologiques et ontogénétiques. In Y. Reuter (Dir.) *Les interactions
> lecture-écriture,*155-173. Berne : Peter Lang.
>
> Schneuwly, B. (2002). Le développement du concept de développement chez
> Vygotski. In Y. Clot (Dir.)* Avec Vygotski, *267-280. Paris : La Dispute.
> 2ème édition.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> *To:* Fernanda Liberali <liberali@uol.com.br>
> *Cc:* eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [xmca] Beyond Alterity/Intersubjectivity
>
> Fernanda-- Send a list of article you think would be helpful and we can
> scan them
> for discussion.
> mike
>
> On 8/27/06, Fernanda Liberali < liberali@uol.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends,
> > Although I do not contribute to the list as I would love to, I would
> > like to
> > suggest that the members could add some of the Swiss writers with a
> > Vygotskian and Bakhtinian backgroud to the list. I believe they could
> > also
> > contribute a lot to the discussion. In my opinion, we could try to add
> > some
> > of the discussion on the role, use and description of language
> > developed by
> > Bronckart, Schneuwely and Dolz, to mention some. I really believe that
> > would
> > be a wonderful opportunity to expand the discussion developed last year
> > with
> > the ideas developed by Hasan, Daniels and Wells. I did it with my group
> > here
> > in Brazil and I think it was a very nice opportunity for us to review
> > our
> > way of understanding language, activity, consciousness, sign and tool.
> > Unfortunately, we do not have the same amount of time to use the list to
> > discuss as we would love to, but, hopefully, we will be able to make
> > some
> > comments on the topic.
> > Best regards,
> > Fernanda Liberali
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > To: "Phil Chappell" <philchappell@mac.com >
> > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Beyond Alterity/Intersubjectivity
> >
> >
> > >I am sure several people are interested, Phil. And we can easily and
> > > fruitfully
> > > take this up in a lab meeting or two. But as always, we benefit if
> > there
> > > is
> > > a
> > > (are some) discussion leader(s). I will be away second week of Sept
> > and
> > > pretty
> > > tied up into October, so why not see who can play discussion
> > facilitator?
> > >
> > > One idea that immediately occurs to me is that it would be helpful to
> > have
> > > the early discussion
> > > in which Hasan, Daniels, and others participated cut and paste
> > together as
> > > a
> > > single file. We could
> > > also create a single space on xmca where the papers and ancillary
> > > materials
> > > for discussion
> > > were brought together in one place for people who experience
> > navigating
> > > LCHC/XMCA>
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On 8/27/06, Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Thanks so much, Gordon for making your paper available. bb has
> > >> already suggested an approach to the two papers (yours and
> > >> Halliday's) and I guess we should wait for him to get back online
> > >> before going any further.
> > >>
> > >> It looks like Gordon's two papers could be grouped and we retain bb's
> > >> "dualing papers" strategy? Having Voloshinov/Bakhtin in the mix makes
> >
> > >> for an interesting time, especially in terms of talking about sign
> > >> mediation.
> > >>
> > >> Anyone else interested?
> > >>
> > >> Phil
> > >> On 27/08/2006, at 12:49 AM, Mike Cole wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > More food for thought and perhaps for discussion? bb, phil,
> > >> > david.....??
> > >> > mike
> > >> >
> > >> > On 8/26/06, Gordon Wells < gwells@ucsc.edu> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Phil and Others discussing LSV and MAKH,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I have been too busy teaching to do more than lurk during this
> > >> >> discussion. However, since you and Bill have referred to my paper
> > in
> > >> >> Linguistics and Education, I am taking the liberty of attaching a
> > >> >> paper I recently finished which has advanced my own thinking on
> > this
> > >> >> and related topics. It is currently under review.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Gordon
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Gordon Wells
> > >> >> Dept of Education,
> > http://education.ucsc.edu/faculty/
> > >> >> gwells
> > >> >> UC Santa Cruz.
> > >> >> gwells@ucsc.edu
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> xmca mailing list
> > >> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > xmca mailing list
> > >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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