RE: [xmca] uncertainites

From: Judith Vera Diamondstone (JDiamondstone@clarku.edu)
Date: Sat Apr 22 2006 - 07:20:35 PDT


Thinking has some force to it, Ana, but it is not free will.

Think, if you will, of individuals under torture. That's the thought experiment I apply to such questions. Some "break"; some don't. No one thinks their way out of the torture that's inflicted. Do you think the ones who don't break exercise free will?

I would say they exercise constraints they have practiced in other situations in the past, & they have learned to read the conditions in such a way that 'not-breaking' is desirable.

Judy

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]On
Behalf Of Ana Marjanovic-Shane
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 12:55 AM
To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] uncertainites

I think that Luria was not right in that and that people-kind proved
many times that "a shadow can carry stones" indeed.
In fact I think that our whole science (social sciences) exists because
we believe that thinking (shadow) has some force in it.
Don't you think?
Ana

Mike Cole wrote:
> I believe the issue was constraints and free will, donna and don. Sorry for
> the distraction of too many words.
>
> These were the one's I was focused on. If you are interested in persuing the
> issue beyond snuffing it, lets.
>
> Are constraints a way of avoiding the issue of free will? And will? Luria
> wrote:
>
> "Many observations support our view that the consideration of the voluntary
> act as accomplished by "will-power" is a myth and that the human cannot by
> direct force control his behavior any more than "a shadow can carry stones".
>
>
> Sniff.
> mike
>
> On 4/21/06, Russell, Donna L <russelldl@umkc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Don
>>
>> --for more word fun--
>>
>> " When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said,
>> "It means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
>> "The question is, said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many
>> different
>> things."
>> "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty,
>> "which is to be the master--that's all."
>>
>> Lewis Carroll
>> THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS
>>
>> Donna
>>
>> Donna L. Russell, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Instructional Technology
>> Curriculum and Instructional Leadership
>> School of Education
>> University of Missouri-Kansas City
>> (email) russelldl@umkc.edu <mailto:russelldl@umkc.edu>
>> (website) http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl/ <
>> http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl>
>>
>>
>> "Quasi-Bedurfnisse" is the sound I make when I sneeze. But I love
>> learning new words!
>>
>> Don Cunningham
>> Indiana University
>>
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>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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>
>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.

151 W. Tulpehocken St.

Philadelphia, PA 19144

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