Re: [xmca] Artist as creator reminds me of combined motor method

From: Lois Holzman (
Date: Thu Dec 15 2005 - 07:04:00 PST

I will entertain other possibilities, but they're not really from a
performance point of view.
1. Studies, in natural settings, of kids learning to speak indicate that
they imitate language that they're in the process of learning (in their ZPD)
and not everything. So this is contrary to that...the lab setting might
have something to do with it!
2. The conception overimitation is overly adult-centric and interpretive. It
ignores the inherent relationality of the activity.
3. Even if we were to look at the situation and findings from the
perspective of its task demands, we could not determine what they are from
the child's or the chimp's point of view.

> From: "Peg Griffin" <>
> Reply-To:, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <>
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:47:21 -0800
> To: "'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'" <>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Artist as creator reminds me of combined motor method
> And then there is the performance of "overimitiation" -- did you see the
> report of a study in today's NY Times?
> _1
> Apparently, chimps will imitate unnecessary steps if they can't see that
> they are unnecessary -- but use a transparent box and they "edit" and only
> imitate the steps that get to the goal. Kids, though, imitate the whole
> megillah. Transparent box or not. The article speculates why but I am
> guessing the performance people will entertain other possibilities...
> Peg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [] On
> Behalf Of Lois Holzman
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:02 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity,
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Artist as creator reminds me of combined motor method
> Mike, Yes!!!!!
> That's what occurred to me and Newman in the early 90s. In two ways < one
> that is coherent with Cazdan's performance before competence and with
> Vygotsky's learning leading development. The other is (perhaps) more
> profound, namely, that thought being completed in the word isn't restricted
> to oneself as the completer but that others complete for adults
> for babbling babies in the endless little language games they play. I find
> this kind of performatory conception of learning very exciting and
> satisfying. Have I said enough for you to see whether you resonate with it?
> Lois
>> From: Mike Cole <>
>> Reply-To:, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:57:56 -0800
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Artist as creator reminds me of combined motor method
>> I am mulling over how all this fits together with a methodology that
> fronts
>> performance. I have the intuition borrowed from many that it is an
>> instantiation of a practice that emodies the idea
>> that the thought is completed in the word. But I am still puzzling.
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