Re: [xmca] LCA: AA Leontiev and Landolf/Thorne question

From: Phil Chappell (philchappell@mac.com)
Date: Thu Jul 07 2005 - 02:48:14 PDT


Thanks, Eric, that makes your original comments re: removing shop
classes from high school crystal clear - a rather compelling
theoretical argument!

Phil
On 07/07/2005, at 2:33 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:

> Hello Phil;
>
>  
>
> I will do my best to explain my thinking without muddying the already
> murky waters any further.  In the chapter of "Thought and Language"
> devoted to the development of scientific concepts Vygotsky uses the
> example of a student having an understanding of the word brother
> because of the culture that student lives in.  But if that student
> were tested about their knowledge of that word the student would
> probably have a difficult time providing a sound academic explanation.
>  ON the other hand if the student were tested on a scientific idea
> taught in school(sorry I can't remember the exact example Vygotsky
> uses, my copy of the book is on my desk at work) the student would
> fair much better because the student would be able to provide the
> explanation that had been taught during course work.  For the purpose
> of this discussion when I use the word academic I am referring to the
> syllogistic intellectual skills that follow the following format: if
> given 'so and so' then we will get 'this and that'.  As has been
> discovered in M. Cole's vast cross-cultural studies not all people
> follow this line of reasoning.  School can help people to formulate
> this sort of thinking but some people still do not grasp the
> conceptual aspect of such nebulous ideas even if they have had formal
> schooling.
>
>  
>
> How am I doing?
>
> eric
>
> Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com>
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 07/06/2005 09:56 PM ZE7
> Please respond to xmca
>
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> cc:
> bcc:
> Subject: Re: [xmca] LCA: AA Leontiev and Landolf/Thorne question
>
>
>
> <image.tiff>
> Hi Eric,
> I was responding to the problem of communicative activity here, as you
> mention... could you elaborate on the construct "academic" that you
> use for "academically challenged" students? Interesting but cloudy
> issue.
>
> Phil
> On 06/07/2005, at 9:08 PM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> Phil;
>
>
>
> You provide a good example of how language (used as a tool) mediates
> your goal of creating sound theory behind your teaching practice.
>  Because language is the main tool of your profession I would surmise
> that you rarely think in other terms.  However, the academically
> challenged student may construct knowledge in just as sophisticated a
> way as an academic expert but will lack the tools necessary (academic
> language) for communicating their thoughts.  The removal of shop
> classes from high schools has left many  of these academically
> challenged students without the avenue for communicating or expressing
> themselves.  It is not that the academic aspect is removed from the
> learning environment when students take mechanics or woodworking,
> rather a context is provided that helps students better understand the
> "grammar" of the academic world.
>
>
>
> eric
>
> Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com>
>
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> 07/05/2005 09:29 PM ZE7
>
> Please respond to xmca
>
>
> To:
> Mike Cole <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>, "eXtended Media, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
> cc:
>
> bcc:
>
> Subject:
> Re: [xmca] LCA: AA Leontiev and Landolf/Thorne question
>
>
>
>
> Mike,
>
> My training as a language educator has led me to operationalise the
> metaphor "acquire" as a derelict construct, automatically substituting
> with "develop". And when SFL is woven in, as far as second language
> learning is concerned, the activity might be glossed as 'learning what
> ideational and interpersonal meanings are possible in given contexts
> (social interactional activities), and how they are expressed'. Ruqaiya
> suggested yesterday (Sthn Hemisphere time) that the theory of context
> of situation in the early sociosemiotic perspective that I summarised
> last weekend is a theory of "linguistic activity".
>
> I may be out on a limb here, but let me quote AAL:
>
> At the basis of man's intellectual activity, at the basis of his
> thought, there lies the exploitation of material 'supports' and thought
> procedures elaborated by society and appropriated by the given
> individual. Of course, thought can be of varying degrees of complexity.
> It is obvious that in theoretical thought the basic means mediating
> intellectual activity is language. For this reason 'language and
> thought' is a problem of deep psychological significance.
>
> Not sure if there is a well-worked out answer, but how might we use the
> construct of "intellectual activity" or "theoretical thought" as
> candidates for activity?
>
>
> Aside: Time is always our enemy - I think it might be worthwhile
> looking into the work of the late Joachim Lompscher both in terms of
> the "rise to the concrete" metaphor and having another take on learning
> activity, although he didn't directly implicate language.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/07/2005, at 5:21 AM, Mike Cole wrote:
>
> > In seeking to figure out activity-language relations, a question I
> > keep coming up against
> > is what is meant by phrases such as
> >
> > "As far as psychology is concerned, speech is identical to any other
> > activity" (p. 1 of AA Leontiev)
> > or the phrase, "communicative activity." I know this is an old issue
> > in Russian (at least Soviet)  arguments about activity
> > and Language. But it appears important to this discussion as well.
> >
> > I can understand how seeking to acquire a second language could be
> > considered an activity (at least I think I do), but acquisition
> > of a first language let alone using language in a case is "Mr Smith
> is
> > not working today, he is out mowing the lawn" both seem
> > questionable as candidates for activities.
> >
> > Is there a known, well worked out answer to this question, or a set
> of
> > alternative answers?
> > mike_______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
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