Re: Way off thread - SLA

From: Andrew Anthony Jocuns (jocunsa@georgetown.edu)
Date: Fri Apr 08 2005 - 03:46:51 PDT


Well a good question to ask here is the seeming resistence to chat based/influenced theories outside of SLA. I assume there is more cross-over with SLA because of the education aspect of it. As for me, I think a chat based approach (like the scollons work) is quite relevant to interactional sociolinguistics. It has enabled me to handle micro-analysis of interaction with multiple participants quite well. Although I wonder if some of the resistence to it may be due to the influence of Goffman as a means of analyzing micro-interaction.

As for the conversation analysis paradigm (CA), the Goodwins have done a lot of excellent work with chat. The only criticism I have of CA and CHAT is the lack of an overall theory of conversation analysis that explains explicitly how some of the ideas from chat are relevant to CA.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Thorne <sthorne@psu.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2005 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: Way off thread - SLA

>
> Andy is absolutely right (which is why i put in the caveat about my
> lists being off the cuff and partial!) -- ron scollon with his
> innovative work on mediated discourse analysis does a great job of
> bringing together vygotskian insights with close analysis of
> language/discourse (as does debbie schiffrin's stuff on
> intersubjectivity as achievement, + many others).
>
> there's also a recently formed group that's putting into
> juxtaposition conversation analysis and chat -- it's a troubled
> marriage on a number of fronts, but it is the fissures and
> frictions
> that seem to be producing grist for the mill of
> interesting/combative
> thinking. a number of us will be presenting together at AILA (14th
> world congress of applied linguistics) this summer.
>
> steve
>
> >Hey lets not forget the interactional sociolinguistics.
> >
> >andy
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Steven Thorne <sthorne@psu.edu>
> >Date: Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:49 pm
> >Subject: Re: Way off thread - SLA
> >
> >>
> >> hi Mike and all -- yes, if there's interest enough, it would be
> >> great
> >> to have a discussion that focused on language and chat (notice the
> >> slight broadening of the topic to be more inclusive and
> potentially>> interesting to a greater number of folks -- a
> tighter concentration
> >> on SLA and/or bilingualism is also fine). though there's been very
> >> interesting classical work on language within chat proper
> (bakhtin,>> volosinov, vygotsky, shpet, and more obliquely
> ilyenkov), as well
> >> as
> >> recent work (gordon wells, jay lemke, r. engestrom, chik collins,
> >> rommetveit, + some of the applied linguistics Phil mentioned)
> >> [note:
> >> these lists are off the cuff not meant to exclusive!], there are
> >> many
> >> highly related, and sometimes even explicitly chat linked,
> >> researchers doing very interesting work that is broadly
> >> commensurate
> >> with chat (michael tomasello comes foremost to mind here).
> >>
> >> but yes, other than this brief and hopefully encouraging missive,
> >> we'll save this thread for another time.
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> >>
> >> >Steven, Phil and other SLA advocates. Perhaps we can make this
> >> line
> >> >of work one thread in the
> >> >online CHAT class I am scheuling for December-March next year. As
> >> >you can see, between the
> >> >play discussion upcoming (see papers on xmca papers for
> >> discussion)
> >> >and discussion of an
> >> >article from MCA (see xmca discussions) I expect we will be
> >> >struggling simply to pay attention
> >> >to that and always-emerging other topics for the next several
> weeks.>> >mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Apr 7, 2005 12:27 AM, Steven Thorne
> >> ><<sthorne@psu.edu>sthorne@psu.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >hi Phil and all -- there is indeed a strong and growing strand of
> >> >applied and cognitive linguistics/SLA work rooted in vygotskian
> >> and
> >> >chat frameworks. a colleague (jim lantolf) and i are
> finishing up
> >> a
> >> >book length manuscript for OUP on this very theme. as you note,
> >> our
> >> >group here in the US has been active, but as you correctly
> >> mention,
> >> >most of our stuff has been praxiological, but not explicitly
> >> >pedagogical (though of course we strive to "ascend to the
> >> >concrete"!). in our forthcoming volume, we're trying to address
> >> this
> >> >through some chapters that look specifically at concept
> >> development
> >> >and the role of mediation, artifacts, and forms of participation
> >> >that might foster the conditions of possibility (to rob a line
> >> from
> >> >foucault) for learning, and potentially, development (i won't
> >> parse
> >> >these terms here other than to revisit vygotsky's notion that
> >> >learning precedes development, and development, especially in
> >> >late-modern post-vygotskian theorizing, involves resolutions to
> >> >contradictions > reorganization of mental processes > the
> >> >dialectical becoming of a new kind of person (possibly in domain
> >> >specific environments/performances).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >lastly, i was a member of the old xlchc some years ago and
> only in
> >> >the past week or so resubscribed -- why it took me so long is a
> >> >mystery! but i'm very happy to be back.
> > > >
> >> >
> >> >steve
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>Sorry, All to open a counter-thread, but I have been doing some
> >> >>back reading of reviews etc, and came across this intriguing
> >> >>section of a review of a book devoted to second language (SL)
> >> >>learning and linguistic form and meaning (see below). I was
> >> >>intrigued by this section of the review (background: the
> field of
> >> >>SL "acquisition" is still dominated by psycholinguistic theories
> >> >>stemming from Chomskyian linguistic theory and conduit metaphors
> >> of
> >> >>communication, see Reddy's work of three decades ago). Like some
> >> >>others (both active and passive list members, based on the
> member>> >>list Mike mentioned earlier), I have been living the
> >> contradiction
> >> >>between the dominant platform in SL research and the one(s) that
> >> >>are more semiotically based and focused on human interaction and
> >> >>development. But should we always be in a position where we do
> >> not
> >> >>"fully agree" with the prevailing hegemonic views on aspects of
> >> >>human development when we have such exciting "counter views"
> >> based
> >> >>on the interests of many on this list? Views which have spurned
> >> >>their own debates between, for example, the strong socio-
> semiotic>> >>and interventionist, though somewhat inaccessible
> theories of the
> >> >>Australian SFL group based on Halliday, Martin, etc; the
> exciting>> >>group within the US that bases its work on
> sociocultural theory,
> >> >>albeit criticised for downplaying pedagogy (Lantolf, Wells,
> >> Thorne,
> >> >>Kramsch, etc); and the group of educational sociologists in the
> >> UK
> >> >>that have expanded and made more accessible the works of, for
> >> >>example, Bernstein. Apologies for the geographical divides here,
> >> >>but I am sure it is a little less in your face than religious
> >> >>analogies.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >I'm young in this academic game, and I'd love some pointers on
> >> ways
> >> >to foster cross-talk rather than cross!-talk.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Phil Chappell
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Steven L. Thorne
> >> >Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
> >> >Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
> >> > and
> >> >Communication Arts and Sciences
> >> >Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
> >> >Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
> >> >Education and Research
> >> >The Pennsylvania State University
> >> >Interact > 814.863.7036 | <sthorne@psu.edu>sthorne@psu.edu |
> >>
> ><http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/>http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/>> >| IM: avkrook
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steven L. Thorne
> >> Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
> >> Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
> >> and
> >> Communication Arts and Sciences
> >> Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
> >> Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
> >> Education and Research
> >> The Pennsylvania State University
> >> Interact > 814.863.7036 | sthorne@psu.edu |
> >> http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/ | IM: avkrook
>
>
> --
> Steven L. Thorne
> Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
> Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
> and
> Communication Arts and Sciences
> Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
> Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
> Education and Research
> The Pennsylvania State University
> Interact > 814.863.7036 | sthorne@psu.edu |
> http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/ | IM: avkrook
>
>



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