RE: mis-directed message

From: Eugene Matusov (
Date: Mon Jun 14 2004 - 14:35:56 PDT

Dear Carol--
Together with my colleague Renee Hayes, we wrote an article comparing and
critiquing Piaget and Vygotsky:
Matusov, E., & Hayes, R. (2000). Sociocultural critique of Piaget and
l%20critique%20of%20Piaget%20and%20Vigotsky,%202000.pdf> . In New Directions
in Psychology, 18(2-3): 215-239.
You may find our paper useful for the questions you raised.
Take care,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cole []
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 1:07 PM
> To:
> Subject: mis-directed message
> I responded to Carol MacDonald online from a different account which
> did not go through to xmca, but which generated that human development
> message which did go through later.
> Here is my original reply to Carol and her response.
> mike
> ---
> Mike-A very quick response, as I must hasten home and design a budget for
> a
> project. When I teach these two fellows, I am oriented towards their
> contribution to formal teaching and learning. I think that Wertsch did a
> great job in helping us to construe what may go on in the ZPD, and his 3
> concepts can be applied at higher levels than originally described. The
> conservative view of Piaget is that he has little to offer teaching and
> learning, but I teach "Equilibration Theory"-a late development in the
> 1980s, which shows Piaget's real contribution to undertanding the nature
> of
> social relations in learning, but the role of cognitive conflict in
> creating
> perturbations (but special procedures are also implicated).
> I don't do the "compare and contrast" bit at all.
> Thanks for the other remarks Piaget-I think his conception of
> embryogenesis
> and competence are also helpful.
> Cheers for now
> Carol
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: []
> Subject: RE: bodies, matter, action, and meaning
> Carol wrote: I have problems
> > simply attributing a social constructivist label to
> > Vygotsky. Is there
> > anybody else out there who teachs both areas, and
> > with whom I can converse?
> Carol-- I teach and write about both Piaget and
> Vygotsky and of course there is a whole industry
> based on comparing the two scholars. So, one
> right answers are going to be hard to come by.
> There was a special issue of Human Development a
> while back on various views about this issue. I
> will check the ref when I get out of the mail
> program and try to post later.
> But to at least respond to your question given my
> own views, I see two differences with respect to
> how
> Vygotsky and Piaget relate to constructivism more
> generally.
> 1. Culture/cultural history play a crucial role
> in how active agents acquire and use their
> psychological capacities for LSV but not Piaget.
> 2. The social environment is an active agent in
> LSV's theory (owing, in great measure, to point
> #1)which leads some, myself included, to think
> of the process of ontogenetic and microgenetic
> development as a process of co-construction.
> As summarized in *The Development of Children*
> the evidence that not all of what Piaget
> attributes to the active construction by the
> child is in fact constructed, but, rather, is
> contributed to by phylogenetic constraints, or
> skeletal principles, which provide the
> foundations upon which culture builds (and to
> which culture has created in the process of
> hominization).
> What practical consequences do you draw from your
> understanding of the two?
> mike

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