Re: Discussion of EVI's Concept of the Ideal

From: Steve Gabosch (
Date: Thu May 13 2004 - 02:03:07 PDT

Victor, thanks for the url.

Dubrovsky explicitly equates the ideal with subjective reality, and the
material with objective reality. I am inclined to concede that this is a
valid interpretation of Marx on this question - and also Lenin, who
Dubrovsky cites in this regard as well. Do you agree?

Ilyenkov's concept of ideality - as something quite distinct from and
independent of individual subjective consciousness - appears to be
something new in relation to these classical Marxists. To your knowledge,
has this concept of ideality of Ilyenkov's been anticipated by others
within or near the Marxist orbit? (Ilyenkov mentions Bogdanov, for example.)

- Steve

At 02:46 PM 5/12/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>I haven't read the whole message - I'm a bit rushed at the moment - but I
>suggest you see how Dubrovsky, Ilyenkov's materialist counterpart,
>interprets "the ideal is nothing else than the
> material world reflected by the human mind, and translated into forms of
>thought." See Ralph Dumain's Autodidact site
>I hope my writing was clear enough to show that I disagree with both DD and

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